Baytril oral or injectable

[ticklechin]

Seems there is a opinion change (that I do not agree with) that its OK to give baytril orally now, that the digestive issues are not bad enough along with the loss of appetite to overide the use of it injectable. So what is the general opinion now, it won't change my mind after the bad experiences I have had using it oral and no issues at all using it injectable on many many chins even with 21 day usage for nasty infections.

 

[Stackie]

The doctor I work for regularly prescribes baytril for small animals that need it and in my experience I have not had many go anorexic. He compounds it with flavoring sometimes, other times just gives it straight. We mostly treat guinea pigs and in my experience, none have gone anorexic. We are currently treating a chinchilla with oral baytril who is also experiencing no problems. We compound his baytril with strawberry flavoring and he actually loves it. If it is any of my animals, I make sure to ask that flavoring is added.

The problem with injectable is that not many pet owners can or feel comfortable giving it. It is just not practical for pet owners to bring their animals in twice a day for a week or two to a clinic to get injections- not to mention the multiple injections can cause skin problems and sore injection sites. As an antibiotic given over the course of a week to two weeks, that's a lot of injections. Unfortunately baytril is the best antibiotic to use in many cases, and oral is the only practical route in many instances. I'm not arguing that it has side effects, but in my experience they seem to be minimal. There are many drugs whose side effects include nausea and loss of appetite unfortunately.

 

[Riven]

They don't go off feed because of the taste, it's due the how it reacts to the digestive system.

Giving shots isn't hard. I'm sure if their child was diabetic and needed insulin they'd learn how to give them. I agree with Dawn, injectable is the better way with less complications. I have not had any skin issues giving it and I have injected about 24 chins twice a day for two weeks at a stretch, that's nearly 100 injections with no skin complications.

 

[Stackie]

I'm not saying injectable isn't the best way. You may not have a problem with giving injctions...don't you have a nursing background? To some (many) people, they just are not comfortable giving injections to a squirmy animal. I still have problems giving injections to small animals and have 3 years of tech experience.

Since it is not the flavor but rather the way it interacts with the body, injectable could theoretically still cause the nausea side effect associated with animals going anorexic.

You may not have had any issues but I can't imagine it isn't uncomfortable for the animal. They don't have near as much surface area to choose from when giving injections, and receiving multiple injections over the course of weeks has got to leave them pretty sore.

Not to mention, baytril is a pretty caustic drug and it has been known to cause abscesses at injection sites.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

From my knowledge of the pharmacology of enrofloxacin, along with personal experience, baytril isn't a GI killer. It can cause GI disturbances, so if the animal was already having GI issues, I probably wouldn't give it orally, just in case. But that being said, as long as the animal is eating and drinking fine then I don't see the harm.

I've heard horror stories about giving it SQ causing skin sloughing and tissue necrosis (though we were not taught this side effect in pharmocology). I haven't personally seen it, but my vets are extra cautious and dilute it and the animals I've treated haven't been on it long term.

I'm comfortable giving injections, but as with my current foster rabbit (who I just found out today is staying on baytril for another 6 weeks), it is a heck of a lot easier to mix baytril with some baby food and squirt it in his mouth than pin him down and inject it. He was even anorexic before we put him on the baytril and is back to his normal piggy self while on baytril.

 

[AZChins]

Inject it the correct way and it works very well and possibly even better than giving it orally. Giving it orally isn't a horrible thing, but it is better than injecting it improperly and causing issues. A lot of pet owners do not feel comfortable with injecting the chins themselves and would require a vet to do all the injections. This isn't possible for most pet owners so their vets will prescribe it for oral use.

I've used it orally and injected it and they both are equally as effective. Most of the time I inject it because it is easier for me, but I know how to inject it properly because of my experience with chinchillas and injections.

 

[andreya]

I didn't even know Baytril was available injectable until I read a thread on here, so I can only give my experience with oral. Ari is the only chin that I have had get sick (UTI) and require antibiotics. Although the Baytril (mixed with flavoring) cleared up his UTI, he stopped eating, I believe he lost over 100 grams (I'm not sure his exact weight prior to the Baytril but he was 464 at his lowest and is around 590 now and back to his normal size) and was peeing blood. He had started having kidney issues. As soon as I stopped the Baytril and started feeding him Critical Care he started gaining weight and eating again. After a couple months off of the med he had gained his weight back and his kidney values went back down to normal. The vet I ended up taking him to wasn't the original one who prescribed Baytril but she said that his kidney issues were most likely due to him being dehydrated/sick from the Baytril.

 

[tunes]

They don't go off feed because of the taste, it's due the how it reacts to the digestive system.

It's actually a combination of the two. I personally have never, ever, had a problem giving Baytril orally provided it was either compounded or given with a chaser to get rid of the nasty taste, so it can't be a blanket statement that it messes with the digestive tract. I agree with the comment that if you're not already having a gut issue that it "shouldn't" cause anorexia.

I do believe that an injection gets where it needs to go a lot faster, just like a shot of Penicillin will take care of business much faster than a 7 day course of oral meds in a human. But as mentioned, if you're not comfortable giving injections, then it's not a good way for you to try and administer Baytril. I hate giving shots - absolutely hate it - but I will if I have to. Thankfully, Kody is a whiz at it, so he's my back up.

 

[Stackie]

Many times animals that are given baytril are often very sick with whatever the baytril is supposed to be treating..who is to say that the actual condition is not causing the chinchilla to become anorexic? It is common knowledge (to us chin owners) that chins will go off feed when sick or in pain.

 

[AZChins]

Stacie, that's a very good point. Illness in chins definitely can cause them to stop eating. Surgery can cause discomfort and pain, too.

Peggy...I definitely agree that you just have to give them a chaser after the Baytril or some chins will try to drool out the taste! Giving it orally or in an injection has seemed to do the same thing here.

My vet thinks that giving it orally is better than an injection because he said it's more comfortable for the chinchilla, but he doesn't mind my preference for injecting it.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Many times animals that are given baytril are often very sick with whatever the baytril is supposed to be treating..who is to say that the actual condition is not causing the chinchilla to become anorexic? It is common knowledge (to us chin owners) that chins will go off feed when sick or in pain.

Agreed! Even with rabbits - I wouldn't have known my foster rabbit was practically drowning in his left lung if he hadn't gone into GI stasis. He showed no significant respiratory signs, the vet didn't even pick up on it until we insisted on an x-ray of his abdomen and some of the thorax was in the picture.

 

[Jaina_Organasolo]

Some times its not a choice all pet owners will be given. I go to two vets, a local chin experienced vet (who are much cheaper) for minor issues and for dental issues I go see a specialist (much dearer and further away).

Both vets initially refused injectable as an option. When treating a bad URI, when several courses of Baytril and some of Septin failed my local vet agreed to give a course of injections. I was happy to take them in daily but by the second day the Vet agreed to teach me. It wasn't easy and one of them got an abbcess from the injections but it did finally seem to do the job.

When taken in to the specialist they were horrified that that had been injected with it at all, and even more horrified that they had allowed me to give them. I get the feeling that they would never let me give them. They are however good with my Malo chins and let me have Tramadol, which is rare in a UK vet.

Anyway, the point is most vets in the UK will only give oral Baytril.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

I've done both. I prefer injectable just because I don't have oral compounded. I may look at that. I have had reactions with both routes. Orally I have had 2 animals bloat and several go off feed but I also just gave it straight with no chasers.

Injectable I have had several abscess years ago. Now I dilute it down and rotate injection spots. Neck, Rt hind, Lt hind leg.

Baytril is not my drug of choice. I love SMZ or Bactrin (same drug). That is my go to drug especially with GI issues.

 

[Riven]

Since it is not the flavor but rather the way it interacts with the body, injectable could theoretically still cause the nausea side effect associated with animals going anorexic.

That's not exactly true. Firstly if they're already having GI issues, oral is not the ideal way to go because you don't know if it will be properly absorbed due to the current GI issues. Also same drug given different routes DO have different side effects because of the route they are given. The GI tract has to process it, which means just as it can be caustic to the tissues, it can be caustic to the GI tract, causing issues. Personally to me injection is so much easier, I know it was absorbed, I know exactly how much they got, that it wasn't spit or drooled out, and I have not had one go off feed with injectable like I have oral. Less fighting to get it in and I don't have to worry about aspiration because you're shooting it into their mouths instead of them licking it off the syringe.

 

[ticklechin]

When I deal with a issue that is severe enough to need baytril (which for the record I do not use anymore alone, only with flagyl or not at all) I don't want easy, I want what is the best. And injectable is the best way to give it for the reasons listed above-you know how much the chin is getting, the chin if it has drool can spit it out, the last thing a chin with a URI needs is something else administered in the mouth they can aspirate when they are already having issues breathing, chins with GI issues don't need any new things in their gut, especially something that has been compounded with something sweet like orasweet or oraplus which is sucrose. With the 100s of injections I have given, I have not had all these issues people talk about, done properly with diluted baytril its not a issue nor is it hard.

 

[tunes]

It keeps being mentioned that Baytril should not be used with a gut issue. Well, yeah, no kidding. I've never had Baytril given for a gut issue, nor would I ever use it for one. That's like using tobasco sauce to treat heartburn. If, however, you have a respiratory infection or are dealing with pyometra, Sulfa is often times not strong enough. I also prefer not to use Baytril, but when you need it, you need it.

I don't have issues medicating chins orally. Sulfa is given orally, chins don't seem to die when they take that. Metacam and gas drops are given orally, and chins do fine with that. Why is it different with Baytril that is compounded or given with a chaser? If they are going to aspirate, they are going to aspirate no matter what oral medication you give.

Again, if there is ANY way I can avoid Baytril I do, but if I need it I use it.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

"If, however, you have a respiratory infection or are dealing with pyometra, Sulfa is often times not strong enough. I also prefer not to use Baytril, but when you need it, you need it.

Again, if there is ANY way I can avoid Baytril I do, but if I need it I use it"



I agree!

 

[AZChins]

You should avoid using most antibiotics if you can. It isn't good to use any of the antibiotics just because you think an animal may need it. It should always be used under the instruction of a veterinarian to know the dose and frequency and duration of use. (Just adding that in here like a disclaimer...)

 

[ticklechin]

When a chin has a issue serious enough to need baytril, injectable you know the chin got the dose they needed no questions, oral you don't. Especially drooling chins.

 

[Claire D]

Interesting discussion. :yes:

If I'm going to use Baytril at all it's because the chin needs the 'big guns' so I won't give it orally. A sick chin has enough of a problem without compounding it by giving a disgusting tasting, harsh antibiotic by mouth (and for the reasons already posted in this thread above). In the UK Baytril is revolting and it is rarely compounded to taste nicer but some people have given it with Ribena (no sugar blackcurrant cordial) or with Cytacon (blackcurrant vital B12 liquid).

If a chin is sick enough to require Baytril then it needs to be given in the most effective way and that, for me, without a shadow of a doubt is by injection. As others have said, I would want to know the full dose has been given and it is going to be absorbed quickly.


I've never had a problem giving Baytril by injection (either in terms of tissue necrosis at the injection site or gut issues) but I have had problems when it was given orally - with or without a chaser and using probiotics always.

If I can avoid Baytril then I will. If I have to use it then injectable every time.