What do you think is best for this dog?

[AnnShh]

Some of you may remember Gibson, the walker hound that we foster for the rescue I volunteer with. We've had him since October (he came to the rescue about 3 weeks prior to him coming home with us). He was severly abused and came to us with many issues (both trust issues and others.). He has come VERY far since we've had him, learning to trust people, obedience etc. He really is a great dog and although he has some downsides, I think the good outweigh the bad (but I may be a bit bias).

He still is not warmed up to my dad/brother and is very uneasy around men in our household (friends and family both). Now, he has improved since we first got him, but he still will not allow my dad/brother or male friends to pet him or get close to him. He will go up to my dad if he has good "people" food but stretches his neck out as far as he can, grabs a piece and runs back to his little corner. At adoption events, he's fine. Lets anyone come up to him, pet him, walk him, etc. Even my dad. It's just in the home setting he is not comfortable with men. He has not progressed any further, but he has not regressed either. I really don't see him getting to a point where he is comfortable with the men in my household, to the point that he will go up to ask for petting etc. He is EXTREMELY attached to me. Does anything and everything I ask and trusts me insanely.

So I am wondering, would this dog be better off back at the Ranch (the Ranch is what we call the rescue... it's an awesome place- the dogs have acres to run/play in w/ other dogs during parts of the day and have indoor/outdoor runs as well) where he is exposed to a bunch of different people? Or would he be better off in our home until he is adopted?

I'm completely in love with this dog (but no, we can't adopt him, as much as I would love to), but I do want to do whats best for him. Part of me thinks we should just keep him until he is adopted, part of me thinks he should go back to the ranch to get more exposure with different people there. We'll talk with the rescue this weekend when we're at the adoption event (and he's actually going to another volunteers house this week b/c my grandparents are coming) to get their input... but ultimately we know the dog better than they do so it will be based mainly on our judgement.

I need outside opinions. My heart is telling me one thing and my brain is telling me another.

 

[eroomlorac]

I would worry if he's back at the ranch, some family will adopt him not knowing about the dog's issues with men in a household. Ideally, I think this dog should be adopted to a single woman or female only household. I think it's very odd the dog will let your Dad pet him at an adoption event but not in the house. I don't know what to think about that. Maybe have the dog sit with you and your Dad sit right next to you and pet the dog with you right there to comfort the dog.

 

[3CsMommy]

I'd try more positive exposure therapy before considering sending him back. We had a similar case in a rescue I worked with, and I was lucky enough to be one of Bobby's breakthrough people. He's still less trusting of men, but thanks to having access to a *ton* of pet-starved college kids, his foster mom figured out what, exactly, his triggers are and could, if she had to, rehome him safely (though I'm listed in their will as his Dogmother and will take him in if they can't keep him). Do you have access to different men you can invite over? Maybe have a barbeque and keep him leashed at your waist while you visit with your guests? Bobby's breakthroughs were progressive, but very different. At first, he'd only go to women. Then, he'd come out from hiding from men long enough to bark at them. Then, he'd only bark at dark haired or bearded men, or someone in a ball cap. It's taken 6 years from the time he landed in rescue to figure out what makes him tick, but if you have the time and patience to put into this dog, you might have surprising amounts of success.

 

[AnnShh]

I'd try more positive exposure therapy before considering sending him back. We had a similar case in a rescue I worked with, and I was lucky enough to be one of Bobby's breakthrough people. He's still less trusting of men, but thanks to having access to a *ton* of pet-starved college kids, his foster mom figured out what, exactly, his triggers are and could, if she had to, rehome him safely (though I'm listed in their will as his Dogmother and will take him in if they can't keep him). Do you have access to different men you can invite over? Maybe have a barbeque and keep him leashed at your waist while you visit with your guests? Bobby's breakthroughs were progressive, but very different. At first, he'd only go to women. Then, he'd come out from hiding from men long enough to bark at them. Then, he'd only bark at dark haired or bearded men, or someone in a ball cap. It's taken 6 years from the time he landed in rescue to figure out what makes him tick, but if you have the time and patience to put into this dog, you might have surprising amounts of success.

I could try having him leashed with me... it's really odd. He is totally fine with anyone and everyone who comes up to pet him at an adoption event (aside from kids... if the kids are really loud/obnoxious around him he will shy away a bit). It's just in the house... he will go around men (male friends or family) and bark at them when they come in and then he usually keeps his distance.

The thing that I find odd, is that he was adopted this winter by a female but she had him around men at the dog park and her house.... and said that he was fine (he was returned because her dog apparently didn't get along with him). He's been at another volunteers house while we were out of town an she houses the rescue's employees, and he loved the guys! We thought maybe he just doesn't like my dad/brother, but male friends who come over etc... he barks at and won't let them come up to him either. So I don't know what it is...

If we're out on the deck and I'm sitting next to my dad, he will come up cautiously on my side but if my dad makes any sort of movement, the dog scoots away. He had to have been seriously abused by a male.... my dad has NEVER done anything to the dog, other than try to gain his trust. He has actually grown quite fond of Gibby and has said that if he warmed up to him he would consider adopting him...


I am totally for giving this dog a chance and continuing to work with him... I have become very attached to him and my main worry, like someone mentioned, was not being able to make sure he gets an appropriate home. Obviously the rescue would do their best with that but the adoption coordinators and volunteers are different each week and wouldn't know the dog like I do.

Now that I think of it, could his resistance towards men come from his attachment towards me? It doesn't really seem like thats what it would be, but who knows. It's really odd.

 

[Riven]

It could possibly be the way your dad acts at home. When you are away from home, you're more aware, and "professional" usually.

If you can get your dad to take him to the park etc. with you, and once you get there have him be the main person, giving treats etc.

It's possible as well that he wants to protect you, but is to scared. So that he shy's away because he wants to be more aggressive ( protect you ) but is scared of what might happen.

 

[addictedtochins]

I really don't know anything about dogs but I do enjoy that show "It's me or the dog." She had a dog like that on there and the two guys in the household (dad and son) took over ALL the feeding, treats, walking, anything fun for the dog. The females in the house had to stop doing that 100%. They slowly had sucess after a lot of work.

 

[Laura]

If it were me, I'd keep him in the house. It may take a long time for him to realize that men are not going to hurt him, but when he does realize it, it's going to be important for him. Not everyone is willing to put the kind of effort into it that you are. Either way, good luck!

 

[AnnShh]

Thanks guys! These are the kind of opinions I need!

We had a long chat today about whether to keep him here or not, and we have decided to continue fostering him (yay!!! I'm happy!). My dad pretty much agreed with everyone on here, regarding the fact that at least we can better screen potential adopters... I'm very honest with interested people about the dog, which I think causes people to continue looking, unfortunately.... but the dog needs a special home. I ask what people want in a dog... and some people I flat out say that he is not the dog for them, others it could work and I usually give them info about him, and some are PERFECT but move on. We actually had one couple who I thought would have been perfect for him... youngish couple, didn't want kids, they had another dog, fenced yard, etc. They loved him and were ready to take him home that weekend except they were going out of town and didn't want to kennel him right after adopting him, so they said they would email when they got back and set up a day to pick him up. Never showed up, never emailed, called etc. I always try to present a lot of good sides to them, while still letting them know that he will need some patience, but unfortunately, most people don't want a dog they are going to have to put a lot of work into. He is a really great dog, just needs more time.

 

[alli713]

Since I obviously can't see the way the dog acts I can't be sure, but to me it almost seems like he is being protective over you. Like he sees you as his person and wants to keep you away from your dad or other males in his house. You say you're really attached to him and he to you, but is that a healthy relationship? I just wonder because you say when he was with the lady who adopted him, he didn't act that way. Well in these instances the only common thing is that he's with you in his house and in that atmosphere he acts differently.

I think that if it were me, I would start having your dad do more of the work for the dog, like feeding, taking for a walk etc. if you are the one right now to do everything.You can obviously take it slow, but if you're doing everything for the dog right now I would start getting others involved since to me it really does seem like he's kind of protective around you.

And not all dogs who act fearful in situations have been abused by someone. I mean, you never know for sure if they were or weren't but it could have just been a negative influence of something happening and then from then on they associated negative things with men. Because my dog, Lila does not trust men. She just doesn't, but I'm 99% sure that she never was abused. She came to the shelter at like 6 weeks and was held there until she was old enough to be adopted out. I got her at around 3 months or so. And you can bet in my time with her no male has ever abused her. But if a guy tries to pet her at the dog park or anywhere else she won't let them, she runs away. And she's more likely to keep barking at males when they visit our house. Around females she settles down. But for the first year of her life I didn't live with guys so I think she's just more used to being around females. I just mean this to show that it is possible he wasn't abused, you just never really know ) Some just aren't naturally trusting if they haven't been around something very much. So you could work on exposing him to whatever makes him nervous.

 

[greychins]

And not all dogs who act fearful in situations have been abused by someone. I mean, you never know for sure if they were or weren't but it could have just been a negative influence of something happening and then from then on they associated negative things with men. Because my dog, Lila does not trust men. She just doesn't, but I'm 99% sure that she never was abused. She came to the shelter at like 6 weeks and was held there until she was old enough to be adopted out. I got her at around 3 months or so. And you can bet in my time with her no male has ever abused her. But if a guy tries to pet her at the dog park or anywhere else she won't let them, she runs away. And she's more likely to keep barking at males when they visit our house. Around females she settles down. But for the first year of her life I didn't live with guys so I think she's just more used to being around females. I just mean this to show that it is possible he wasn't abused, you just never really know ) Some just aren't naturally trusting if they haven't been around something very much. So you could work on exposing him to whatever makes him nervous.

While I don't really have anything to add (other than that I wish you the best of luck with this dog!!), I wanted to add that I agree with this. I got my puppy at 12 weeks of age, and she was never abused, yet she is very very scared of men. She's ok with my dad, because she met him fairly early on (and every time he comes he has two cheeseburgers for her, so in her eyes, he's the BEST!!), but the majority of my friends and the people who come to the house are females. Like the grand majority - in the last 6 months I think there have been 2 males here, one once and the other twice. Point being, she is VERY scared of males, and I think that it's because she never really was exposed to them. My dog RUNS up to my female friends, but the males, she hides and barks, and say we sit down to watch tv or something, she will try to wedge herself in between me and my male friends versus if it's me and my female friends watching tv.

I would think maybe exposure in general would help. I just don't happen to have a lot of male friends, but I've been trying to take her on more walks in different areas where we might run into males (I know that sounds odd, but I swear that here, where I live, the majority of people I see outside on our walks are females). I agree with what others have said about maybe trying to have your dad feed the dog and take on more responsibility and that sort of thing, and see if that helps somewhat... either way, good luck!!

 

[AnnShh]

Thanks for the info guys... he will go on walks with my dad and brother but very cautiously, though it's better than nothing. We have been trying to have my dad feed him but the dog won't eat if he's the one who puts the bowl down. He will take people food from my dad (and no, we don't give them people food often) but my dad can put treats or dogfood right infront of him and he doesn't touch it. He will leave it there until I pick it up and hand it to him.

Also, to those who said that not all fearful dogs were abused, that is very true and I would tend to agree. We do know that he was abused (and severly neglected) though, as the rescue got him directly from the owner. Apparently people avoid a fine if they surrender the dog to the rescue (?) so instead of being fined and charged with animal cruelity, he surrendered the dog.

He's going to another volunteers house for the week as my grandparents are coming (my grandmother is very undsteady on her feet and he has a tendency of running through doors so we don't want to risk having him knock her over accidentially)... but when he comes back I will really push to have my dad feed him and do the majority of his care.

My question is, though, since he has shown us that he won't eat if my dad hands it to him or puts the bowl down, should we just leave it and let him figure out that if he wants to eat, that's his chance? Or is there a better way?

 

[eroomlorac]

Yes. Have your Dad feed the dog. The dog will not starve to death if there's a bowl of food available. He will eventually eat.

 

[tskoffina]

Maybe if you had your dad put something special in it, like the dog gravy stuff, or some cut up boiled chicken, mixed in with the food, but if he doesn't eat eventually you take it away, but only give him a smaller amount (not tiny) of plain kibble, he would start eating what he gave him, and once that happens, slowly remove the extras. Use a little bribery.

 

[3CsMommy]

Sounds like Dad needs to try training etc. with a very high-reward treat for starters. Boiled chicken, baby food, bits of hot dog, peanut butter on a finger... something that's *SOOOOO* good, he'll even take it from a guy.