This is very frustrating...

[laura0721]

Hi everyone!
I have a quick question regarding introductions. Yesterday I introduced my two kits, one is three months and a half and the other is two months. It went very well to say the least, there was no kacking, hair flying, or biting :clap1:. They just chased each other while my eldest tried to "mount" my youngest. It wasn't very successful though...the little one was not giving in. They were making those "communication" noises the entire time...it was actually very cute. After a while, I put them back in their separate cages. Today I tried giving them some more play time but the same thing occurred :hair:. A LOT of chasing, and my eldest trying to mount my youngest. At one point he successfully mounted him and did this little humping motion but my little one eventually got away. He was on him for a good 10 seconds so I thought that would solve their dominance issues, but no. After that the eldest still kept chasing the youngest to no end. The youngest doesn't try to mount the oldest, however. Anyway, I let them chase for about fifteen minutes before I put them away. They kept making the communication sounds the whole time, even when separated. So my question is, how long before they establish who's boss and get along without the chasing? I'm really scared one of them is going to turn on the other because neither are getting what they want. And what do the communication sounds really mean? I've seen that webpage where it lets you hear the different types of sounds that they make, but I'm curious as to what's really going on between them. I know introductions require a lot of patience, but is this normal? And how much more play time should I give them before housing them together (that is, of course, after they solve the dominance issue)?

Thank you!
Laura

 

[addictedtochins]

Most everyone reccomends a 30 day waiting quarintine sp? period to give the newbie time to adjust and most important to make sure he is healthy. Since the new one is only 2 months I'd guess you didn't do that unless he is within days of being 3 months. So you're not the first to make this mistake, now it doesn't matter-too late if he does have any problems. He's likely fine if he looks fine since he's just a lil baby. My opinion is this..as long as they are doing ok together, just humping, talking, a little fur flying I would just keep them together and not separate. I think in about 24-36 hours they will be BFF

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

I find that giving them a dust bath together helps with introductions.

 

[burritothechinchilla]

Try to clip both their wiskers.

 

[EveningChin]

I don't think clipping their whiskers will help at all as neither sounds particularly aggressive. Since you said that there isn't any fur flying or really aggressive behavior other then the chasing I would give them more time. Sit with them for an hour and see if they can work it out in that time period. I've had an intro go very poorly and it doesn't sound like thats whats happening with your boys.

I don't know your stoy did you get them both at the same time? From the same place? Or is the young one brand new to your house?

As Addictedtochins said a 30 day quarentine is usually in order. This is to allow the chinchilla to aclimate to new house. Moving is kinda stressfull and that could be adding to your intro difficulties. He's in a new place with all these scary new sounds and smells and new food and now theres this strange chinchilla chasing him. He may just be overloading. Since he's already near the older chin I would just leave their cages next to each other but give him a few more days to aclimate before introing more.

 

[laura0721]

Thanks for your feedback. Basically the oldest keeps trying to mount the yonger even after the whole humping senario. How many times do they normally try to mount/hump? Apparently once wasn't enough for him. Also,the youngest has way longer whiskers than the older, could that be a reason why he is not easily giving in?

 

[addictedtochins]

How many times do they normally try to mount/hump? Apparently once wasn't enough for him. Also,the youngest has way longer whiskers than the older, could that be a reason why he is not easily giving in?

Tons of humping will happen for a while, now, here the humping only happens apx. 2-4 times per day, per chin. Um, I don't think the whiskers are a big issue right now in your case. I would put them together and keep them together. Don't intterupt or separate unless it gets bad. Humping, chasing, a little fur flying/slipping, kacking....all OK

 

[alli713]

The length of whiskers has nothing to do with dominance initially when intro'd. in general, people trim the whiskers to kind of put them off balance so they may not focus on attacking, and it can put them both at the same level of dominance.
But, after chins have been intro'd sometimes the dominant chin chews down the whiskers on the submissive chin. Not all do this. Only one of my pairs does this occasionally.

I agree that it doesn't sound like aggression. I would continue to try the playtime. If they are getting overly stressed by the situation you could try smooshing them in a confined area (like a show cage or small metal carrier) I did this with my last intro as there was chasing but no aggression. It allowed them to have to deal with the dominance right off the bat, and didn't allow for chasing. But I would try with the play times a couple more times and see how it goes.

 

[laura0721]

So I've kind of discovered why the dominance establishment is taking such a long time...it's because the little one (Jax) apparently wants to be the dominant too. While playing today, Jax mounted Vinnie (the eldest) and humped him for a couple of seconds. They will be fine one minute, kissing, and Vinnie will even groom Jax...but the next minute Vinnie will still try mount Jax (for the 50th time) and Jax desperately tries to get away. Jax obviously doesn't like it, but sometimes he'll even kack at Vinnie, in which case Vinnie runs away (he never kacks back or kacks first). I don't really think Jax is scared of Vinnie because he doesn't seem to mind being near him (just as long as Vinnie doesn't try to jump on him, of course). Jax doesn't want to be mounted, but instead tries to mount (I've seen him try to do this twice to be exact), and Vinnie doesn't seem to mind being mounted but continues to mount.

Should I just let them keep on trying to work their issues out? :hair: (they've been together today for over five hours [they are in Vinnie's cage because it's the bigger one of the two...but don't worry, I thoroughly cleaned it and I have been keeping an eye on them the whole time]). I don't want to put them in a small dog kennel because I'm afraid someone might get hurt, but I'll do it if it's my last resort]). I Have you guys ever had an introduction where the two chins just never figured out who's the "boss"?

 

[Lynn & The Chins]

I'm a fan of the long, slow introduction.

Start with having their cages side by side so that they can see and smell each other, but not close enough for any nipping through the bars. I do this for about a week or so.

Then, try a playtime together in a "neutral" area, usually the bathroom, since it is small and easily chinproofed. Be sure to close the lid to the toilet!!! (I know this from experience!!!)

Let them take turns chasing and humping each other for a while, as long as neither one is getting too stressed. Try this for about a week.

Then, if you can have both cages blocked off in a chin-proofed area, let them have playtime in there. They will probably each run into and out of the other's cage, seeing, as I called it, "How the other half lives". Do this for a few days.

Then, take a little wet litter from each of the cages and put it in the other one's cage to get them used to each other's smells.

For me, the magic moment comes when they both end up in the same cage and don't show any signs of aggression or try to "defend" "their" cage while they are having playtime. Grooming and snuggling together is a good sign.

I think most of us try to do this when we are home so we can watch them like hawks in case something goes awry. I even slept in the living room the first night that I left Mr. Whiskers and Baby (and then Mr. Whiskers and The Snuggler) together, just to be safe.

And you must ALWAYS remember, just because you get them successfully introduced and happily bonded, it does NOT mean that they will live happily ever after. I ended up neutering all 3 of my boys on the advice of my veterinarian.

First, Mr. Whiskers and Baby when Whiskers beat up Baby, and then (after Baby died, suddenly and unexpectedly, from unrelated causes) The Snuggler, when he started picking on Whiskers when he (Snuggler) reached adolescence.

Things have gone well in the past 2 years, but I ALWAYS have an extra cage just in case things go south. I have been very fortunate -- my fights have not ended in death. There are several mambers on this forum who have not been so lucky. Chinchillas can become vicious and turn on a bonded cagemate even after lliving together happily for many years and they WILL fight to the death.

Good luck...just take it slow and don't rush things. :thumbsup:

 

[EveningChin]

How long are you having them out together?

You may want to try switching their cages a few times. But from what you've said I would simply let them out to play for and hour or two then grab a book and put them in together in the same cage. Then sit back and supervise for a few hours. If all goes well then I'd leave them together, checking on them every so often. I'd do this twice, making sure there is no aggression or fighting before leaving them together over night.

Its better safe then sorry.