The Toxicity of Pine and Cedar Shavings

[Twilight Chinchillas]

We all know how toxic cedar can be but seriously pine?? Someone had posted the following links below saying how toxic pine can be. anyone ever hear of this? They are saying ALL small animals, not just rats....
What's your intake on this???
They also have aspen down as safe, which I know some use, I've had a adverse reaction to aspen once, but never with pine....

http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html

 

[Courtney]

I kind of skimmed but are you sure they didn't mean pine that hasn't been kiln-dried? If I remember my research (I don't use shavings, so I'm not 100% sure), kiln-dried pine is safe. Pine that hasn't been kiln-dried contains phenols, which is unsafe.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

I know that kiln dried pine is recommended, but if you look further down in the rebutal section you'll see where they state that even heat treated pine could pose a risk, and most softwoods for that matter.
I was just surprised that anyone would consider pine unsafe, so thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[starleomach]

There is so much bad information out there. Just a ton.

 

[jmdebb]

I kind of skimmed but are you sure they didn't mean pine that hasn't been kiln-dried? If I remember my research (I don't use shavings, so I'm not 100% sure), kiln-dried pine is safe. Pine that hasn't been kiln-dried contains phenols, which is unsafe.

This is what I always heard too, and I also just skimmed it, but didn't see anything about KD Pine.

But I have to say, I thought Aspen was safe.

Jean

 

[Spoof]

If you read the study they studied mill workers working with the raw products.

Nothing about KD in there.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

Just so there is no confusion, I am NOT saying I think Pine is unsafe, but was surprised to see there are those who do.
I was assuming that their reference to heat treated was pretty much the same as kiln dried, but I could be wrong. :wink2: Maybe I'm misreading or misunderstanding what I'm reading then. I'm going off the following on their site...

Some claim that pine shavings which are heat-treated are safe because the heat drives off the toxins. There are currently products being sold, notably All-Pet Pine, Feline Pine, and Pine Fresh, that claim to be free of toxins. However, the studies in references 8 and 9 found that heat treatment did not remove all the toxins from the wood. Heat-treated shavings still caused a rise in liver enzymes in rats and mice.

 

[Jeanette]

Anyone could put anything they please on to a website. I could make one that says that all animals are allergic to air. But that doesn't make it true. Let's just notice rubbish when we see it and flush it back to where it belongs.

 

[equus_peduus]

recent thread on this topic:
http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4608

any wood that has odor to it has aromatic phenols (or whatever, it's been a long time since o-chem) still present. kiln drying decreases them, but doesn't eliminate. if you can smell it, the chin can smell it. and in sensitive individuals, this can cause problems.

 

[Twilight Chinchillas]

Anyone could put anything they please on to a website. I could make one that says that all animals are allergic to air. But that doesn't make it true. Let's just notice rubbish when we see it and flush it back to where it belongs.

I think we are all aware of that, but misinformation or not it's good to know it's out there, my whole point of posting. Some might say oh it's not safe for chins then, so lets stop using it with out asking any questions, this is when you don't want to just ignore bad information.
Thanks for link to the other thread equus_peduus. It helped.