Questions and Thoughts on Introducing two Chins

[yub]

Hi all,

I'm pretty much a lurker here and have read several threads on introducing chins and would like some feed back.

Here is a bit of back story; sorry for the length. My wife and I adopted a single female chin (Mouse about 3.5 yrs old at the time) from a co-workers daughter who was going to college. We didn't know anything about chinchillas and after some research on the old Chins and Quills board, got everything setup for our new house mate.

My wife worried that Mouse was lonely, so the search for a companion began. We ended up adopting two chins (sisters/newborn) as we didn't want to separate them; they just adored each other.

The sisters (Skylar and Jayden) lived in a separate room for several months to ensure there was no issues with diseases before moving thier cage into the same room with Mouse. We then alternated play time between Mouse and the sisters. During one of these alternating play times, Skylar ran up to Mouse's cage and they squabbled a bit through the bars (it all happened so quick) where Skylar got a part of her toe bit off (I assume it was bit off). After an emergency vet visit we decided to cancel our plans on introducing the sisters with Mouse as we didn't want anyone else getting hurt.

Fast forward 6 years and Skylar (the older sister) passed away unexpectedly. Jaden does seem quite depressed since her sister died, even with addtional attention from us.

My wife and I are now re-visiting the idea of introducing Mouse and Jayden (Mouse 10yrs old and Jayden 6.5 yrs old now). So far we've moved each other's cage next to each other (about 4 inches apart) for about a week. They both were really excited at this change at first but it didn't seem to be in a bad way (no spraying as far as I saw). Now they seem to pretty much ignore the other (I think), not sure if this is a good sign.

Next we plan on placing each into the other's cage for awhile (saw that as a suggestion on another thread); I hope to try that this coming weekend. And if all goes well try to have them play together for the first time next week.

Does it look like we're on the right track? Any other incite or advice would be appreciated, thanks for your time and have a great day.

 

[andreya]

It sounds like you are doing everything right. You could let them out to play in a neutral area to see how they interact with each other and obviously separate them if there are any issues.

 

[Cuddlebug]

I would wait on the shared play times. Instead, I would keep switching cages every couple of days so that they get used to each others scent. do this for a couple of weeks and then try the play time or you could also try another way (in my opinion the safer way) and try putting them together in a cage that has been thoroughly cleaned so no scent remains in it. I would even rearrange the shelves. Put them together, after dabbing their noses and rear ends with vanilla, for a short time and see how they do. The reason this is a safer way to go about it is that it will be easier to catch one of them should they begin fighting.

 

[yub]

Thanks for the feedback Andreya and Cuddlebug. I didn't think to continue swapping cages more than once, we'll start doing that this weekend. When switching cages should they stay in the other's cage or switch back or just for a visit?

I did read about the vanilla on several other threads. Is it the same vanilla extract used for cooking that you recommend?

Would it be OK to re-use one of the existing cages if we clean it really well? Or do you recommend purchasing new?

How much fighting/squabbling is expected (if at all) before I separate them? Or do they have to work out diffrences?

Thanks so much for the pointers, I'll post updates as we go along.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Let them live in for a few days. Cage within a cage and the car ride methods are my preferred ways of doing it. I don't think shared playtimes are a good way to go.

Yes, regular vanilla extract works. You can also trim the whiskers of the aggressor.

You can clean everything, maybe replace the fleece or a few shelves but I wouldn't necessarily get a new cage. I would prepare to get two water bottles and food bowls in case one turns out to be a hoarder.

You will likely have better luck intro'ing them as singles rather than a pair to a single. Watch them very closely - some chasing, humping and fur pulling may be ok but if one chin looks extremely stressed or you see tons of fur pulling or blood, obviously, break it up.

 

[Cuddlebug]

You leave them in the other one's cage for a couple of days, then switch back. Do this a few times.

Yep, the vanilla you use for cooking.

Yes, you can use a well cleaned cage for this. You do not need to buy a new one. Clean everything in the cage with vinegar to get rid of and scents that have been left by either chinchilla.

Volunteerchin, gave good pointers for what to watch for. Just take it your time with this. If you rush things, you could end up with an injured or dead chinchilla.

 

[yub]

Just thought I'd post an update on how our two chins are doing.

We had the chins swap cages several times over last week. While both were very curious of thier new surroundings at first, the younger chin (Jayden) seemed to adjust to her new "home" much quicker than the older chin (Mouse) which was kind of expected. Jayden even picked up how to use the saucer (she has a wheel instead) in about 20 minutes which was much fun to watch.

Saturday morning at about noon, we decided to have them play together in a neutral spot in the house and brought both into a penned in area in our living room. After dabbing a bit of vanilla on noses and butts, in they went. Me and my wife sat in with them so we could separate them if things got out of hand.

Both seemed to ignore the other for awhile (2 or 3 minutes perhaps) to check out the new area; even passing right by each other while exploring. Then they met and Mouse was agressive and pounced on Jayden. The younger chin ran off and they continued to then explore the area. It seemed that when they would meet Mouse would definatly jump at the younger chin causing fur to fly from Jayden who would then run off, but there wasn't much chasing or any spraying.

We had a hard time trying to determine if Mouse was actually trying to bite Jayden or was just stressing her out by jumping on her when she was close. No blood appeared so we decided to bring in some baths to see if that would change the dynamic.

Both would take a quick spin, but then back out to explore. At this time the younger chin (Jayden) was definatly avoiding Mouse as far as we could tell.

After about 15-20 minutes we decided to end the experiment and return them to thier original houses. My wife was upset at seeing Jayden stressed and loosing fur and questioned how much sorting out between the chins needed to happen before we intervined.

While not a bad first meeting as far as I could tell, I'm not sure how to progress. I'd hoped for a clearer picture after thier first meeting.

Should I continue swapping cages and having them play together? Should I place them into a single (cleaned cage)? Or should I take Mouses aggressivness as a sign that they should just live separate?

 

[Cuddlebug]

Mouse may not be being aggressive. Instead, Mouse might be trying to hump Jayden to assert dominance. Since there was no chasing or actual fighting, I think that there is hope. I would try again, just watch for any signs of aggression and separate if necessary.

 

[yub]

Thanks Cuddlebug, here's an update from our second meeting of the chins.

We decided to try again Sunday afternoon. We had them swap houses again for Friday and Saturday night before the second meeting. After dabbing buts and noses with vanillia we placed them into a neutral play area in our living room.

Just as the first time, both seemed to not notice the other for a few mintues. Mouse then chased Jayden a bit who lost clumps of fur. Jayden then would spend the rest of the time avoiding Mouse as far as my wife and I could tell.

Both were a bit vocal (gumbles and squeekes) but no spraying and or blood. After about 15 minutes we decided to separate them as we were worried Jayden was getting too stressed trying to escape the penned area.

We'd hoped that they would get along better. Do you think the process would benefit if we continued the cage swaps and meetings or does this sound like both should stay single chins? Or should we try a diffrennt approach?

Thanks.

 

[greeneyedbaby190]

This entire things sounds so familiar to me. We had Sasha...spoiled rotten little fuzzbutt that she is/was. I had bought her as my honeys birthday present and wanted one of my own...in comes Morsel, a lovely ebony that we found on craigs list. We waited the month, then put cages close together. Biting the bars ensued for a few minutes before the calmed down. Left them like that for a week, switching cages was interesting...Sasha was not a happy camper when we moved her.

Once they had calmed down, and after more switches we decided play time was in order. So after vanilla to bottoms and noses into the pen we went. That did not work at all. Morsel ran the entire time, tried jumping out of the pen, huddled in the tube and hid. All the while Sasha chasing her and trying to mount and trying to bite. After a few more tries (~10) we realized that this was not working so we decided it was time for a little more radical measures.

We had read about smushing...but were a little scared of putting them in together, worried that they would hurt one another, but wanted to try everything before giving up and resigning ourselves to being a two cage home. So we got a box, that was short, had mesh on the sides and was a little larger than a chin chiller. We placed the chiller in the bottom to stave away the heat a little and put the girls in. Not even a peep. They struggled a little bit, but the calmed down, we left them that way for just under 10 min listening attentivly just in case anything sounded wrong. Took them out and immediatly seperated into their cages to let them both calm down. We did this one time a day for 3 days...testing with a few minutes of play time right before bed to see if we had made progress. At the end of our last smooshing round we opened up the box to find the girls cuddling together, so we put them into their cage and have not had a single fight since, plus we have added another chin to the mix...Eevee. Her intro was not nearly as tramatic...in fact she just fit right in.

Smooshing worked for me personally, but even so I do not know your chins so can not advise one way or another, just wanted to share my story of how I introed my chins to maybe help you realize that it can be done without the chins having lived together their whole lives.

 

[yub]

Thanks GreenEyedBaby, it's reassuring to hear about chins finally getting along. I've read several accounts on people using the Smoosh method. My wife and I are very concened that something could go wrong and one or both of the chins would be hurt during the process.

The way I've read about smooshing before, people made it out to be a sure fire cure all. My thinking is if it's too good to be true.... However your account is diffrent it you note that it took several smooshes over several days.

Does anyone have a link to a video of the Smoosh method being used? I tried googling it, but just came back with a few people describing it rather than an actual smoosh being done.