Question on bottle feeding kits?

[EMSChins]

For those of you who have been successful with getting kits that you need to hand feed to drink from a bottle hung from the cage - do you have any tips that you can share?

For example: At what age did you start trying the bottle method? How did you transition - from a syringe or from an eye dropper? Did you continue to hand feed and hang a bottle?

Any other tips or steps in getting them to attempt a bottle would be welcome.

Right now I am feeding a set of triplets that are 17 days old and I have had a bottle hanging on their cage for over a week and there is no evidence that they have even investigated it let alone used it.

In addition I now how a 5 day old orphan - so if I can get this technique to work with him it would be awesome.

I realize he is still too young but would like to know what has worked for those of you with lots of experince with hand feeding/bottle feeding. Thanks!

 

[Sycamore Chins]

First of all, general note, I would not recommend bottle feeding young kits for anyone who isn't VERY comfortable handling their kits, manipulating them, and the process of feeding them so they don't aspirate.

This is what has worked for us, two successful litters (trips on the bottle alone and quints, the ones that were rotated away from mom), after many years of hand feeding. We will never go back to hand feeding unless we absolutely have to!

We start at day one. Kits won't experiment at that young of an age so you have to do it for them so they learn the association of bottle = food.
We start off hand feeding with a dropper and also have the bottle on the cage. We make sure the bottle is flowing well and at their level - like 1-2 inches off the ground, then hold the kit (with feet on the ground) and dab it's mouth on the ball tip so milk goes on its lip then we let the kit go right in front of the bottle to lick their lips. We do this a couple times, then hand feed with a dropper afterwards. We do this every feeding, and with the two litters we've done it, it has taken the kits 2-4 days to catch on. Soon when you put them up to the bottle they will start actually drinking and sit at the bottle until they're full. They sometimes need reminding it's there, and we usually keep reminding them every time we change the bottle for at least a week or two.
Yes you still have to do it every 2 hours or so for the first couple days, but at least it's not 4 weeks!
We've found that with the bottles with the balls in them, you cannot put oat cereal or whatever in the formula or it clogs the bottles in no time and the babies give up. We're going to try to acquire some of the baby jar size glass bottles with the glass tube and see if we can get that to work with the next litter. We haven't seen any decrease in growth with not using the oat cereal - in fact one of the trips is a monster and bigger than his father (who was a single baby on moms milk) at 8 months old. The growth of all the bottle fed kits has been consistent with all other kits we've had born here (I've got data for >30 kits so far).
Important: make sure the bottles are always flowing! If they cannot get milk once they will give up immediately and it will take another 2-4 days to get them back on it.
Change the milk frequently, depending on the temp of the room. We know how goats milk smells when it's off, and usually change it every 6-8 hours at around 68 degrees F.
Raise the bottle as they grow, may need multiple bottles if the kits are feisty. We actually had two of the trips that would drink together - one would hit the ball and the other would catch extra drops (ADORABLE).
Make sure the bottles are thoroughly cleaned between changings.

Can't think of anything else right now. Best of luck. If you get the kits on the bottle, it is so satisfying!

 

[tunes]

So far, I've had zero luck with this. I am trying again with a litter of triplets because school will be starting in 2 weeks and I won't be here during the day. I have always done pretty much what Alicyn does, but they just refuse to drink out of the bottle when I hang it on the cage. As long as I hold it up to their mouths outside of the cage, they drink. Once I hang it on the cage, they refuse to touch it.

We're still working at it.

Ugh - Stupid internet. Tried to edit and deleted it instead.

ETA: Alicyn be careful with the glass tips. They grab onto them and darn near choke themselves to death. I'm hoping they slow down some as they get adjusted to it, but so far I'm not impressed.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Yes, Peggy that is one of my concerns. Although we did have one or two that would latch on to the bottle and SUCK on it and that scared the crap out of me but they seemed to handle it fine.

My mom has a much harder time getting them started on the bottle - she does not have nearly the amount of patience I do (she says I have the touch - but really, it's just patience...and some persistence(stubbornness)!), thankfully I've been there both times to get the babies started and she can continue after I leave.

 

[EMSChins]

Thanks Alicyn! I have the baby food jars with rubber stoppers and glass stems and thought that maybe the large drop of milk that hangs off the end of the tube might deter them especially if they are very young. I will give your method a go and see how it works out. I might go out and get a botttle with a ball as well and see if I have better luck with that. I have several more litters due and have little desire to continue down this path!

I can easily get the stoppers and stems for you from Shoots (or if you just need a couple I can probably spare them) and ship them to you or give the next time I see you at a show. The bottles you just get the 1st stage baby food jars and the stoppers fit those.

 

[RDZCRanch]

I guess I get lucky with my babies, they just take to the bottle easily. I usually give it to them around 2-3 weeks of age and by then they've already been playing with mom's water bottle so they have no problem testing the milk bottle on their own. They actually have fun seeking it out because it's lower and easier for them to get to and play with. Once they've tasted it, they have no problem getting it themselves.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Tabitha, what do you do until the kits are 2-3 weeks old? Or is the bottle just to supplement moms milk? Do you still hand feed kits without moms/moms without milk/etc.?

Juanita, we have some stoppers from old Shoots bottles, the stems are fairly long on them, do you/they have stoppers with shorter stems? Will the regular water bottle size stoppers fit baby food jars?

 

[tunes]

The regular ones fit the baby food jars. That's what I'm using.

 

[Sycamore Chins]

The regular ones fit the baby food jars. That's what I'm using.

Thanks! :thumbsup:

Now to buy some baby food...guess the dogs will get a treat!

 

[EMSChins]

Alicyn, the stems are the same length as the ones on the regular stoppers used with glass water bottles. I don't have a problem with the length of the stem, in fact it is nice since the bottle has to go into the cage at such an angle. If you have the brackets for those old water bottles you can cut them down and bend them to support the smaller jars.

The first time I bought the baby food, I just threw a stopper in my purse to make sure I bought the right size bottle.

In fact I found out you can use Starbucks Frappachino bottles with the stoppers as well - just in case you break a water bottle and are a Frappachino addict like me!

 

[RDZCRanch]

Tabitha, what do you do until the kits are 2-3 weeks old? Or is the bottle just to supplement moms milk? Do you still hand feed kits without moms/moms without milk/etc.?

If there's no dam, they get handfed for the first couple weeks and get to stay on a foster mom. If their mom is there and not producing enough milk, they still get supplemental hand feeding for the first couple weeks. It may not be as ideal as getting kits on the bottle immediately, but it works for me. I would rather hand feed for a couple weeks and then transition to a bottle when they're ready than hand feed the whole time, so it's what I do. I also worry a ridiculous amount about aspiration, so I'd rather be in control of how they consume the milk the first couple weeks that they're figuring things out.

 

[Claire D]

I have never failed with kits on bottle feeding. I've even had a 28g kit use a bottle with success 24 hours after getting her as a rescue. She was 2 days old at the time. (More info plus Cassie's story & photos on the web page below)
http://www.davidson-chinchillas.co.uk/pages/hand_rearing_chinchilla_kits___alternative_approach.php

The method I use is generally similar to Sycamore Chins:
[From my website]

- Once the kit is feeding happily from a pipette add the formula to a small, sterilized bottle (mouse bottles are an excellent size) - Some kits I start straight off on a bottle though & I will hand feed using a bottle until the kit makes progress to drinking from the bottle for themselves (usually a few days).
- Gently cupping the kit in a hand place the bottle against the lower lip so that a drop of milk touches the mouth (do not allow too much milk to flood the kit's lips).
- Remove the bottle while the kit licks the milk off its lips.
- Repeat the above process until the kit begins to lick the bottle nipple itself.
- Once the kit is adept at drinking from the bottle whilst being held the bottle can be attached to the cage mesh at a level low enough for the kit to comfortably reach.
- Gently place the kit in front of the bottle (the kit may need to be gently held in position until it finds the bottle nipple). Kits soon get the idea of a bottle and will eagerly scramble to the front of the cage when they hear you coming with a fresh bottle of warm formula.
- Refresh the formula as necessary - at least 4 hourly to ensure bacteria does not flourish in the warm milk.
- Ensure the kit is feeding sufficiently by continuing to record daily weights.

A word of warning when making up bottles of formula: To ensure the milk is free-flowing (before kits drink) it is important to get the air pressure out of the bottle by depressing the nipple - please make sure this is done with the bottle facing away from you - the warm milk makes the air inside the plastic bottle expand and it can be expelled with some force when the nipple is initially depressed.

 

[6Dusters]

Oh this is a wonderful post!!

I just bought some baby food apple sauce in the glass container. I have some "ranch" glass water bottles already. So I will try this as well. Going to put all this information in my chinchilla hand book I've been making for several years. I couldn't do without it.

BTW: the 1st stage apple sauce is yummy. Hee Hee
I also noticed that alot of baby food now comes plastic container packaged. Yuck. Going to stock up on all the glass I can and store it away.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I have only used this once and the kits were taken from mom when she needed to go on antibiotics so they were a little older, around 3wks - they were the easiest to handfeed never fought me. When i had fed I would just hold the dropper through the carrier so I think they were used to looking for it. I just put the bottle on and they came to investigate and figured it out. the bottle i used is a weird small bottle i have with a curved glass stem but the end of the stem isnt tapered like most of my other bottles - its much wider so I doubt they could latch on and suck - I have noticed the opposite end of the tapered stems is larger so you could reverse the stems in the stopper and try that. They still work!

 

[starleomach]

I have been saving all my jars LOL and I only buy Clara Jars, Because they can be re-used and recycled so many ways. The baby food jars with stoppers also work great for show waterers. I have had some sucess with bottles and babies. I hang a little bit once they start showing interest in momma's food/water.

If you want Jars I try to find a mom you are friends with or just know...maybe a neighbor

 

[Encantadora]

Can someone explain the baby food jars? Do you buy a special stopper and from where? The ones on my glass bottles would be really long.

Also, what do ranchers use who leave the bottles on the cage? Obviously goats milk spoils so I believe it's a powder formula.

 

[RDZCRanch]

Can someone explain the baby food jars? Do you buy a special stopper and from where? The ones on my glass bottles would be really long.

Also, what do ranchers use who leave the bottles on the cage? Obviously goats milk spoils so I believe it's a powder formula.

The stoppers are the rubber stoppers with glass stems that you can get from Shoots or Ryerson. They fit onto glass baby food jars.

I use goat's milk. Obviously any milk you hang on the cage will spoil, so it needs to be changed often. I usually have four or five bottles I fill at the start of the day and keep refrigerated. Then I just warm the bottles to room temperature and switch them out on the cage throughout the day. I prefer fresh goat's milk in the bottles, the powder formula leaves too much residue and makes the bottles hard to clean.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

What type of baby food jars do you use? I can't seem to find ones that fit

 

[tunes]

Beechnut baby food jars are perfect, the little ones. The stoppers fit in there nice and tight.

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

Thanks tunes! I'm taking the kiddos home this weekend and will be easier hanging bottles like that.