Male humping other male constantly. What can I do ?

[teknik]

Hello everyone,

First of all, thanks to the admins and the chins n hedgies community. these forums are a gold mine of information. Keep up the good work !

I've read lots of introduction posts but none seem to correspond to my case. Here goes:

I'm having a little trouble introducing two males. the first male (Totoro) is 3 years old and I've had him since he was weaned. The second male (Okami) is 8 months old and I've had him for about 2 months and a half. Both are very friendly and tame although Okami is a bit hyperactive


After quarantine, they were both housed in the same cage separated horizontally by a plank of wood. They cannot see each other, or barely but can definitely smell each other.

I tried the neutral zone method for about a month now (1 hour at least together every night and more on WE) and both were very aggressive at first. Chasing, barking, spraying by Okami even though he is a male etc. Aggressive behavior has decreased over time and they can now play in the same room but after a while would start chasing each other again. I regularly switch items from each cage and put them in each other's cages.

I 've tried smooching them a couple times (10 mn each time) and this has helped a lot as they now groom each other (quite aggressively though) and play with each other.

They seem to get along fine now, but Totoro the newly establlished dominant male keeps humping Okami every chance he gets. They groom for 10 seconds and Totoro moves on to humping. Okami goes away without a fight. They play with each other but as soon as Totoro comes close to Okami's butt he wants to hump him. Even though Okami isn't really bothered by the humping at first and just escapes, after a while he gets annoyed and a little fight breaks out. They go back to their normal self and the same cycle goes on and on.

I've put them in the same cage for about an hour each night for the last couple days and they do well together (no territorial issues) except for the non stop humping when Totoro gets a chance. When Okami is settled in his house, Totoro grooms him and everything but after about a minute the humping starts !! :hmm:

Basically I'm sure both enjoy each other's company, but Totoro just can't get rid of this habit even though i push him away from Okami with a big "NO" every time this happens. He just doesn't seem to understand. It's just not simple mounting, but he's really trying to mate with Okami. :crazy:

Is therre anything I can do to stop this behavior ?
Does he think Okami is a female ?
Is this something that will settle over time ?

I apologize for the long post, but any help would be greatly appreciated. :wink2:

 

[tunes]

You can try trimming Totoro's whiskers back until they are really short. Sometimes that really helps. Sometimes castration helps because it takes away that whole hormonal issue. You want to be careful though. Little scuffles can very soon turn into large and dangerous scuffles that can result in someone being hurt badly. If the whisker trimming doesn't work, and the nonstop humping continues, then you need to look into castration or consider separating them and keeping them separate. It must be miserable for Okami to constantly have this beast jumping on his back every time he tries to move. If it becomes too much of an issue, it can affect his eating and drinking habits, and I've been told of chins who start fur chewing because their cage mate was overly "attentive."

What if you kept them housed separately, kept Totoro's whiskers trimmed pretty short, and then just let them interact during play time for a while? See if that helps to calm Totoro down a little bit before needing to separate permanently or seeking castration. I just had to trim the whiskers back on a cage full of five boys because two of them just would not stop. It's been four days now and there has been no sign of humping anymore. No more chasing. Everyone has settled down nicely. I'll let them grow out and at the first sign that the humping starts again, everybody gets separated permanently. I don't want to risk them hurting each other.

Welcome to CnH!

 

[teknik]

Hi tunes, thanks for advice !

I've already trimmed Totoro's whiskers to about half their length when they were still fighting and not humping yet. This didn't seem to do anything at first, but it's true that a couple of days later they started interacting more. don't know if it has anything to do with the whiskers, smooshing, or anything else I've done.

They are both housed separately but i've been putting them both in the same portion of the cage after playtime for about 30mn to an hour for the last few days just to see how things go.

Should I trim Totoro's whiskers only or Okami's whiskers as well?
When you say pretty short, do you mean less than an inch short ? Currently Totoro's whiskers are about 2 inches / 5 cm long.

 

[Riven]

Are YOU sure Okami is not a female?

 

[tunes]

First, ditto what Riven said, and I should have asked. Just as a precaution, take a look. I have males that behave exactly the same, so it's not unusual, but just to be sure you should check.

I trimmed the boys whiskers back until they were less than an inch long. I wanted them to have plenty of time to calm down and hang out together before they grew to normal length again.

Just in case anybody wonders, no, this doesn't hurt them. If you've ever seen a chins whiskers chewed by a dominant cagemate, they will sometimes take them all the way down to nubs. They will grow back.

 

[teknik]

I am 99% sure that Okami is a male. i can see the tip of his little man down there and both "holes" are separated by about a centimeter.

I'll try trimming the whiskers of BOTH Okami and Totoro down tonight and see how things go from there. I'll keep you posted on any evolutions.

I have another small concern...WARNING: sexual content coming up
Totoro's testicles are visible after interacting with Okami which seems normal given the fact he keeps humping him.... I know that chins can let their testicles drop, but Totoro's are the size of small peas and are white in color. the whole gential area underneath seems a bit swollen as well. Could anything be wrong there ? I couldn't find any pictures on here for comparison. Totoro doesn't seem to be in pain at all nor has his mood changed...

 

[chinchillalover0927]

yea, we had that problem i was told by the previous breeder we purchased from that our 2 related chins were males....when i brought them to be evaluated turns out one was a girl, that explained why he would never stop humping her..hopefully they were to young and she didnt get pregnant. i know better now, i know people make mistakes so its best to double check

 

[teknik]

I understand your concern. You're making me paranoid now
I said I was 99% sure in case a rare genetic disease existed that made females look like males. But in reality I've already checked thoroughly and I'm positive Okami is a male.

I just think Totoro either doesn't realise Okami is a Male, or is just addicted to humping.

 

[Riven]

Sorry, I don't want to make you feel incompetent or anything, so please don't feel like I'm badgering you. Chins actually have a 100% genetic disease that make males look like females to someone who does not know, have you looked at pictures of chins, female chins also have "cones". Is the centimeter ( 1/3 of an inch for non-metric folks) from the anus to the tip, or to the mound, if it's to the tip, it's probably a female. Males rarely spray, and when they do it's not a very good one at that. It does happen, but I've only seen one male spray and well it was more like trickling on the shelf.

I would also do hair ring checks, ( this is where you can find out very fast if a chin is male or female, lol ) especially if Totoro is always humping.

If you're 100% sure that they are both males you can allow it to continue if Okami doesn't care, try whisker trimming ( I've trimmed extremely short before, sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn't ), or you may have to separate them, there is always the chance that two chins will not get along. If Okami is a male, then Totoro knows. Females give off different scents and hormones.

 

[teknik]

No worries, I didn't take it that way at all ! And I really feel that most people on this forum are much more competent than I am The spraying is more of a trickling as well but since I've never had a female i wouldn't know what real sprayng is. Must be horrible for the victim ! :laughitup:

I am now 101% sure that Okami is a male. I haven't checked Totoro for hair rings yet since there aren't any signs of them. I'll try and check once he's calmer. Should i wrap him in a towel, does that make the process any easier?

So I tried the whiskers thing (only cut Totoro's whiskers because Okami is mostly passive)... no changes whatsoever.

I'll try and take this slowly and punish Totoro as soon as he humps Okami with time out periods in a small carrier... see what happens then.

Any other suggestions ?

 

[Riven]

Time outs probably won't help, he doesn't understand why he's in there, he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong, just taking out some sexual frustration on the only chin around, lol. I would also get a "cuddle buddy" or fleece cube type thing to give him an alternative to Okami.

Wrapping can help, an extra set of hands is most useful usually.

Girls can get a good 6' range! Be sure to keep your mouth shut around a cranky one that sprays!

I would suggest something a little differe, try getting a little cage, like a show cage that is open so he can see all around him, take both boys and put them in a carrier, clean the cage and re-arrange so it is different ( they'll still know, but it's still kind of new ) and take them for a ride in the car maybe 30 minutes or so, if it's cool there you can run and errand quick and you wouldn't have to worry about them getting too hot in the car, when you get back put Totoro in the little cage, inside of the big cage, and leave Okami out ( in the big cage, but not in the little cage). And let him stay in there for maybe an hour or so.
The ride will help them bond saying hey this is kind of scary, glad you were there for me! The little cage... well I don't know exactly what it does, makes him say hey I'd rather be out there than in here?! LOL

 

[teknik]

Concerning the ride in a car if I try a little walk in the park instead with the chins in a carrier inside an open bag. Would that be suitable (don't have a car) ? Although i don't think it'll really change Totoro's behaviour.

I know they're quite bonded since when i put them together in the cage for an hour or so they can lie next to each other and sleep for a bit. I'll try getting Totoro a fleece buddy. Might help a bit.

I'll keep you updated on how it goes this week end with the new arrangement of the cage.

 

[lydz]

The magic words are
"Chinnie Blow-up Doll"
A fleece buddy might out for him. At least it will be more complying when he's in the mood and won't cack back. Haha