Ok, can someone please explain the lethal factor to me? From what I've read it causes some of the babies to due in utero and be reabsorbed. Thus causing less babies to be born. Does it cause any other complications? I found another chinchilla breeder in utah who has a 9 week old boy who she called a "white". I asked her what color his parents are and she said dad is a pink white and mom is a white mosaic (actually a white mosaic x beige). When I asked her why she bred a white to a white due to the lethal factor, she proceeded to tel me that it was no big deal if babies die in utero. I'm not sure weather to buy the kit or not. Could something be wrong with him due to the lethal factor? What about breeding him?(although I don't plan to breed him, just wondering why our why not it would be ok or not)
Lethal factor
- Thread starter Narcissus
- Start date
Help Support Chinchilla & Hedgehog Pet Forum:
alli713
..has a fleece addiction
I'm not an expert on the lethal factor, as I don't breed, but I can comment on the baby white chin.
Breeding white to white will also contribute to crappy fur in general. White chins tend to have cottony fur if not breed with other chins with great fur. So chances are, this chin would not have the best fur quality. For reputable breeders, this means that this chin would not be of breeding quality.
Nothing health-wise would be wrong with him due to being from a white to white breeding other than if the parents carried the gene for malo. Which, depending on the breeder could be a possibility. Malo is a possibility for a chin from any breeder, but for those who don't keep records and breed whatever to whatever, they will tend to have a higher incidence of this because they don't keep records of if any of their breeding pairings resulted in malo animals.
Breeding white to white will also contribute to crappy fur in general. White chins tend to have cottony fur if not breed with other chins with great fur. So chances are, this chin would not have the best fur quality. For reputable breeders, this means that this chin would not be of breeding quality.
Nothing health-wise would be wrong with him due to being from a white to white breeding other than if the parents carried the gene for malo. Which, depending on the breeder could be a possibility. Malo is a possibility for a chin from any breeder, but for those who don't keep records and breed whatever to whatever, they will tend to have a higher incidence of this because they don't keep records of if any of their breeding pairings resulted in malo animals.
Cuddlebug
Well-known member
The kits do not die in utero and get reabsorbed. They just are never conceived. Any kit born from that pairing should be ok unless there are other unrelated genetic issues. The quality of the kits probably won't be the best, however.
mishalaa
Irish Chinchilla
If the mom is white x beige - she too would be a pink white. But no matter, the lethal factor still applies.
Nope, there are no other associated problems. The kits that are born from a white x white pairing won't suffer any health issues due to the white gene - and they are no more susceptible to other health issues such as malo as any other kit. As for overall quality, however, it's doubtful that any offspring from a white x white pairing is an improvement on its parents.
Whether or not it is a "big deal" for the mom to constantly abort kits and reabsorb them has not been studied, nor would I feel it ethical to do so.
Cuddlebug - it is not known at what stage of development a homozygous white embryo aborts. It is assumed it is early because if it were later in development, the mother would not be able to reabsorb the remains and we would see stillborns and/or mummified kits, or even live births - there are known lethal factors in other animals that do result in live birth and inevitable death, this is not the case with white or black colors in chins. But it generally is assumed that sperm and egg do meet and conceive...
Nope, there are no other associated problems. The kits that are born from a white x white pairing won't suffer any health issues due to the white gene - and they are no more susceptible to other health issues such as malo as any other kit. As for overall quality, however, it's doubtful that any offspring from a white x white pairing is an improvement on its parents.
Whether or not it is a "big deal" for the mom to constantly abort kits and reabsorb them has not been studied, nor would I feel it ethical to do so.
Cuddlebug - it is not known at what stage of development a homozygous white embryo aborts. It is assumed it is early because if it were later in development, the mother would not be able to reabsorb the remains and we would see stillborns and/or mummified kits, or even live births - there are known lethal factors in other animals that do result in live birth and inevitable death, this is not the case with white or black colors in chins. But it generally is assumed that sperm and egg do meet and conceive...
Last edited:
Other animals do have lethal factors, goats carry a lethal gene. If two polled (no horns) goats breed they create-**** polled- babies. 2 out of every 5 **** polled goats is born a hamafrodite(spelling?) Which mean they have both male and female reproductive parts. most of which die before sexual maturity.
Chinmandan
Well-known member
Let's reiterate Blacks and White do carry a lethal factor and should not be bred.
starleomach
Dawnna's Keeper
white X White and Black X Black should not be done for many many many reasons.
I would not support a breeder known to be doing that.
I would not support a breeder known to be doing that.
RDZCRanch
RavenousDeadlyZombieChins
I agree with the above and what Mish said. "It's not a big deal" is not a good enough reason to breed two whites together.
Lethal factor "kits" are never born. It's now known at exactly which stage the mother's body recognizes, rejects and reabsorbs the embryo/fetus, but it is accepted knowledge that the egg DOES become fertilized.
Lethal factor "kits" are never born. It's now known at exactly which stage the mother's body recognizes, rejects and reabsorbs the embryo/fetus, but it is accepted knowledge that the egg DOES become fertilized.
minrex
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2009
- Messages
- 256
That's not a true lethal gene. Maybe it could be classified as a "partial lethal" gene, but mostly it's just a gene which is linked to hermaphroditism. A true lethal gene is typically a gene which either causes death in utero, or death shortly after birth (within a matter of days). A true lethal gene, when present in a homozygous state (2 copies) will ALWAYS cause the organism's death. (That's not the case with the polled gene in goats.)
Examples of true lethal genes in other animals include the frame overo gene in horses, the dwarf gene in rabbits, and the rumpless gene in chickens.
There are also genes which are sometimes termed "lethal" because their homozygous presence affects the lifespan or health of the animal, or causes some (but not all) affected offpsring to die. You might classify the polled gene in goats this way. Many times this type of gene is called a "partial" lethal gene.
Examples of partial lethal genes include the Manx gene in cats and the roan gene in guinea pigs.
mychinchillas
Well-known member
It's my understanding that a long time breeder who is grand show champion winner darn near every nationals has long bred blacks to blacks. Would you not support him? It seems to be working out well for him on the show tables. Just sayin.
Experienced breeders refer to black velvets as blacks and ebonies as ebonies. They do not call black velvets TOVs. TOV is "generally" used for brown velvets.
Correct me if I'm wrong but is it true that the lethal factor is in the velvet gene itself? So it doesn't necessarily have to be black to black but could happen when breeding any two chins with the velvet gene.
ex brown velvet x white TOV etc../.
ex brown velvet x white TOV etc../.
Cuddlebug
Well-known member
Thanks for clarifying that for me.
mychinchillas
Well-known member
I am just clarifying the term. TOV exists in almost any color. Obviously You and I know that but do other 'Pet' People.
kathiva
Kathiva La Diva
Once there was a long time breeder from ontario that told me that white could be bred together, that nothing happened but that ebonies together could not, and I was like, oh ok, but I didn't want to argue with him, I just found it funny that he said that, maybe since he had been breeding for like 20 years, he did know that it was ok with his chins, I don't know, but myself I wouldn't try it at all.
Ash
Trouble....
Ebonies can be bred together with no lethal factor. The quality doesn't always end up being the best, but there's no lethal factor.
kathiva
Kathiva La Diva
No, I know, but that is what this retired breeder told me, unless I misunderstood, and he meant black, for black velvets
chinchillalover0927
to many chin chips??
yea i was lost..i thought it was only tov and whites that had lethal factors, i got thrown off when someone said black x black
