Kit safe enclosure?

[Whimsy]

:help2:
Hello all
I'm refurbishing a macaw cage that was donated to our rescue. We have a couple of chins who are due to have kits soon and I wanted to fix up the enclosure so that it is safe for mom to have babies in. Because the bars of the cage are spaced too wide to keep in a kit, I have lined the inside of the cage with plexiglass to a minimum of two feet high. This will keep the kits from climbing the walls, but still allows plenty of air circulation in the upper 2/3 of the enclosure. My question is: does anyone know how high a kit can jump? I feel if I can restrict their movement to the bottom of the enclosure with slick walls, it may be chinbaby safe. Advice? Opinions?

 

[tunes]

You need to find a way to wrap the cage in 1/2 x 1/2 or 1/2 x 1" cage wire. I would not keep my kits in a plexiglass enclosed cage, nor would I want my mom's in it either. Sure, the upper 2/3 of the cage has circulation, but that's not where the mom or the kits will be. They will be down in the bottom of the cage where there is no circulation at all.

I would use a macaw cage for adult chins, but I personally wouldn't go anywhere near it for kits.

 

[Rickman]

I once had a 3 week old kit climb to the center section of the top panel of a 36 inch cage and get out, and it was 4 inches from all sides - talk about determination!
You might drill some holes in the plexiglass for ventilation, but try to use a high-speed drill press, very slowly, as plexiglass grabs and cracks very easily, especially at the corners and edges - don't even attempt a hand drill!

 

[Chinniechantel]

I would use that cage for the adults. Kits can climb anything the first few hours they are born. They are crazy little things!

You would have to- as Tunes suggested, cover the entire cage (and I mean cover, not even an inch can be left uncovered) with hardware cloth. Even then though, if it is a high cage, it would not be baby safe. I like to use cages that are only 18 inches high for my maternity cages. No ledges, no wheel, and only a hidey house.

Make sure you have goats milk, syringes, and all that good stuff ready too. I believe there is a kit kit somewhere- with all the stuff you could need for handfeeding. I would get that ready as well. Good luck!

 

[Whimsy]

Thanks for the input everyone.
I'm confused though. If a solid melamine cage (except for the front panel) is ok for a chin, why would my putting plexiglass on the bottom 2 feet of a 5 foot tall cage NOT be a good idea? Perhaps some pictures are in order. I'll work on that.

 

[Rickman]

I, as well as many others, have had melamine cages, and if you hit the search function at the top of the page, and put that in, you'll see pictures of many cages. The reason those work, is that the front panel is totally open, all the way to the bottom. There has still been discussion about airflow with these, and some have opened holes in the sides, and covered them with screens, to eliminate the worry! Or even made 3 sides screened.

 

[Whimsy]

Thanks Rickman. It was exactly those cages that inspired my question. By the way, your helpful advice on drilling holes in the plexiglass sure helped. I managed to work it to screw it in place. I'm still going with plexiglass instead of the wire wrap though. Something about function and beauty. I must have both! The wire wrapping would just be too utilitarian for my taste.
As far as airflow goes...think of a cave. Caves and rock ledges can be enclosed on all sides. Thankfully air is omnipresent (except in a vacuum). Muh haha. If it doesn't work out, I'll shamefully accept the "I told you so's".

 

[tunes]

Something about function and beauty. I must have both! The wire wrapping would just be too utilitarian for my taste.
As far as airflow goes...think of a cave. Caves and rock ledges can be enclosed on all sides. Thankfully air is omnipresent (except in a vacuum). Muh haha. If it doesn't work out, I'll shamefully accept the "I told you so's".

I used to own a glass/window repair shop. There isn't a whole lot of "beauty" about plexiglas. It scratches, it turns yellow -- it's pretty much just ugly once the plastic is peeled off. Besides, why is wire ugly? It's no uglier than big parrot cage sitting in the house. I know, because I have both.

It isn't just airflow, which someone pointed out up above. Kits can jump and climb VERY well. I know that my kits could easily squeeze through the bars on my macaw cage with room to spare. It isn't going to take them long to get up to the top of that barrier. I just hope that if there is a need for "I told you so's" that they don't accompany the "I'm sorry to hear about your dead kits."

 

[wktam]

As far as airflow goes...think of a cave. Caves and rock ledges can be enclosed on all sides. Thankfully air is omnipresent (except in a vacuum). Muh haha. If it doesn't work out, I'll shamefully accept the "I told you so's".

I find it disturbing that you're willing to gamble with the life of a kit who does not get a say in the matter. Is there a reason you ask for advice and then ignore the parts you don't like?

 

[Siylvat]

Even if the kits can't climb up, woudn't mom be able to scale the walls of the cage if she wanted to? I mean she could jump up grab the wires and climb to the top right? So unless there are shelves up there she will just fall back down and get hurt (or land on the kits)...and if there are shelves, won't she be able to get away from the kits?

I don't know what the cage looks like (so maybe this is all wrong), or much about breeding, but just something I thought of.

 

[Veronica]

We have 4 foot tall cages that were previously cat kennels at a local groomer. We have wrapped the cages in 1/2" hardware mesh with J clips, but seeing a little baby that has climbed several feet up and not knowing how it is going to safely get down is not good. For the last litter, we created a temporary divider to keep the kits & mom on the lower half of the cage. That worked until the kits figured out how to get up and around the divider - then we came in to see them playing on the top half of the cage while a frantic mom was stuck on the bottom.

We have since permanently divided the cages so they are two- 2-foot-tall cages. We have the bottoms kit proofed and this houses the females. We removed the hardware wire from the tops for the males. I can understand your not wanting to give up use of a donated cage, but as already pointed out, it might better serve another purpose. It is a very disturbing thing to find an escaped kit and frantic parents. Fortunately our escapees were safe, but this could have very easily gone the other way.

 

[Rickman]

If you're intent on using the plexiglass, put it on the inside, so there's no climbing problem! Now that you know how to drill it, you could bolt some wooden shelves in the corners, too, but not close to the top of the plexi, as they'll make a point of chewing it, if within reach!

 

[tunes]

Rick - Why exactly are you encouraging enclosing a chinchilla cage with plexiglass, when you must know it's not a good idea? Instead of giving ideas on how to enclose it more, perhaps you could come up with some that might actually be helpful to the chinchilla instead of harmful?

Also, excellent idea putting shelves in 2 feet off the bottom of the cage. That way, if mom decides to give birth, the kit can possibly fall to it's death, thereby not worrying about ventilation or climbing. <rolls eyes>

 

[Sugarmama]

I'm sorry, but plexiglass in this cage is wrong in so many ways. There have been many genuine safety hazards brought to attention here.

If you don't want to modify the cage safely, then sell it and get a baby-safe cage. That way your rescue still gets the benefit of the donation.

 

[Rickman]

Peggy - I did mention ventilation holes, the first time! Rather than a aquarium, so to speak!
You can lead a - - - - - - you know the saying.
With the vent holes, they'd have half a chance!

 

[Whimsy]

Rick, I'm right with ya buddy. I put the plexiglas on the inside. So....the lower portion is slick and unclimbable. It's cut to fit each panel and has no bitable areas exposed. It's like the kits will be in a large tub.

Yes, I do have shelves, hammocks, bridges, etc to reduce the risk of a long fall. Perhaps I could wrap each chin in bubblewrap? No, there's the whole "air" issue again.

Anyway, the whole idea about using this particular cage was the fact that I believe in colony raising. I am keeping safety in mind and am accommodating those facets. I just happen to not agree with every single opinion on this thread. So, I take into consideration the necessary elements and work with them. Even with all the seemingly conflicting advice, I still have to weigh the pros and cons of each suggestion. I truly appreciate all the input. Now I think I'll go introduce my new ferret to the chins.....KIDDING!

 

[Ash]

And what was suggested about Mom jumping up and either having a long fall, or jumping down to land on the kits? That's a good idea?

 

[Diva Chins]

When I took in Bubbles and suspected she was pregnant, I dunno how your finances are or how they allow things, but I found a maternity / kit safe cage on ebay, i twas about $35 with shipping, 2 in 1 cage. It was 2 maternity / kit safe cages in one with welded wire separating them which is fine because she was my only possibly pregnant female. Thankfully, she wasn't, but it's always nice to have on hand even if you just need some where to put chins while cleaning cages if you don't have a pull out pan. Maybe this is something you could invest in?

 

[tunes]

Anyway, the whole idea about using this particular cage was the fact that I believe in colony raising.

If you knew anything about me and my breeders, you'd realize I have mostly colonies of two to three females and up with one male. Otherwise, I breed in pairs. My kits are all weaned in 2 and up, sometimes to 6 and 8 in a large cage. They aren't tall cages, they are wide and flat, to be safe.

What does that have to do with insisting on using an unsafe cage for kits and discounting experienced breeders and chin owners perspectives on how to provide a save environment for the chins you are supposed to be rescuing?

 

[Megan]

As someone who has been breeding chinchillas for several years now, with colony type cages( 30 x 18 x 36+), Runs with collars, and runs without collars.

I will say that I had more accidents in larger cages then I do in my runs... I have to wonder.. Why are you so dead set on using this cage? Instead of going a proper, SAFE method and using a baby safe cage, with proper wiring? Not only is the cage high, and if a baby happens to make it to the ledge my fall to its death- OR another chin may jump from a ledge ONTO the baby and kill it, The plexi glass even WITH holes drilled is not going to give you air circulation that you need.

Proper cages aren't that expensive. They do not have to be huge for mom to have her babies in, and wean her babies in. Why go the cheap route, instead of going the -safe- route with your animals? I'm all for finding the easist solutions/cheapest solutions--but we need to think about the health and well being of the animals in question.

You've gotten some good advice from experienced breeders. Most of us are in agreement that you should NOT use the the plexiglass at all. I seriously hope the "i told you so's" don't come when you have dead or missing kits .