Interested in breeding and rescue

[nami]

Hey everyone, I am a long time quiet reader of this forum and decided to post for the first time.. I love fury animals and have always been interested in chinchillas but only now feel that I am ready to take care of them (kids are big enough and I am not needed as much anymore - sadly )
Anyways, I would like to start a chinchilla rescue and also become a respectable breeder here. I work from home for several years now and I have a lot of free time. I have a nice 10,000 sq ft house and I bought 2 Critter Nation double level cages, dust bath and bowls, wooden huts, fleece pan linings and many other things that I read about here and online (mainland breeders websites recommendations, etc etc). I feel like I am "nesting" and I love it. I want the best of the best for my chins...
The only problem is that I have very limited options - I live in Hawaii. I only found 1 "hobby" breeder on Oahu and I do not think they produce show quality chins. So I have 2 options: buy my chins from this breeder or from craigslist locally and make sure they are well taken care of, happy and spoiled babies.
Please don't make me give up my dream. I love chinchillas and I have everything for them: a lot of love, nice home and unlimited budget. I also found an exotic vet locally who I can call in case of emergency day or night.
I saw a couple chins for sale here on craigslist (there really isn't many, I check pet forums every day for a year now before I go to bed) and even went to look at some. They look beautiful and healthy but I only know who their parents are, their colors, that they are healthy and nothing more.

I was thinking about getting this Pink While female, a Beige female and a Standard Gray male. My questions are:

1. Should I forget my dream and not breed chins because I don't know their pedigree and not yet experienced in determining quality? (please hope not... give me a chance, a sliver of hope... a way I can take care of beautiful chin babies, breed wonderful pets, give them a wonderful life and find good homes for them).
2. If I do breed, can I house 2 females and 1 male in one of the double level cages. I can separate male when needed but prefer them to stay together as long as possible. I know I have to watch for any signs of aggression. I read that I have to remove the male when chin is about to give birth to prevent back breeding, but can put him back in about 3 days? I heard they are good fathers.
Also I read that I have to separate males and females at 8-10 weeks of age. I don't understand why though. Can a female really get pregnant at 10-12 weeks old? Can't a male and female babies grow up together and breed when they are ready? Or can I separate them at some pint (5,6 months old?) and put back together later? This is not quite clear to me yet.
3. As for the rescue, right now I plan on adopting any chin that needs a new home. Occasionally I see someone is moving away from the island and needs to re-home their adult chin for a small fee.

I am experienced taking care of chinchillas and other fury anumals. I used to have one as a pet 20 years ago. I also had several rats and mice. Once a new hamster pet "boy" gave birth to a few little critters which we loved and found good homes for later.

I will appreciate any advice and information you can give me and thank you in advance!

 

[tunes]

A couple things to consider:

1) No, don't breed chins without pedigrees. You have already mentioned the only breeder you can find is a hobby breeder who produces less than quality chins. So where are the ones on Craigslist coming from? You are working with a very small gene pool there and could very easily be breeding siblings and other closely related animals. If you were able to ship in show winners from reputable breeders that would be one thing, but not with what you have to work with.

2) What is the market for chins there? You want to breed and sell babies. Who wants to buy them? The market here is down. Unless you live in a very populated area or can travel to shows, you may find it hard to place them and end up with an ever expanding herd.

3) You cannot breed in Critter Nation Cages. The bar spacing is too big, the kits will escape.

4) Do you have a chin experienced vet for 1 a.m. emergency C-sections? Are you able to deal with mom's dying and kits dying? Are you able to hand feed, 24/7, around the clock every two hours when mom can't or won't care for her kits?

5) Yes, they can breed that young. No, you can never, ever, ever put opposite sex siblings back together after they are weaned at 8 weeks unless the males have been castrated, which I highly recommend against unless you have a better reason than just wanting to put brother and sister together. Do you think that chinchillas know that they are brother and sister and that it would be "icky" to breed with each other? They don't. They are animals and breeding is instinctual just like with dogs, cats, horses, or any other animal.

I would say stick with rescues at this point. First, you need to own chins for a while before jumping into breeding. I don't recommend anyone's first chins being breeding animals and a lot of people would agree with me. Figure out if it is something you really want to do or would you find it more rewarding to care for animals who are dumped, abused, and no longer wanted. Also, do a LOT of research in the breeding and babies section. Go through the bad things that can happen when you breed thread, read all the FAQ's regarding reasons to breed and what to do with kits if mom rejects them. Start at the top of the breeding forum and read all the way through. Once you have done that, you might decide it's not for you.

 

[Mt. Zion Chins]

I agree with everything Tunes said except that critter nation cages 'can't be used for breeding' Critter Nation cage have small bar spacing and even a small kit can't escape from them I think Tunes was thinking of the Ferret Nation cage - that can't be used for breeding unless you cover with hardware cloth (small space wire). Please do some rescuing first and get to know chins first. Then try to find a reputable breeder that can 'lead you to the right path' if you decide to breed after learning lots about chins first

 

[nami]

Thank you for the advice and information.

Yes I live on the most populated island and every chin I saw on craigslist has found a home within 2 weeks. Also there are not many breeders here. I found one hobby breeder with few chins and others seem to be one time or occasional breeders.

I found quite a few threads online where people are looking for a breeder here in Hawaii and don't want to buy at a pet store.

Scary stories will not scare me away so you don't have to post them. As I mentioned before I read this forum for a long time, all the horror stories and wonderful birth stories and seen many pictures. I am ready for anything as I said I raised my own kids and working from home I have plenty of time to do whatever needed to be done.

I do want to breed chinchillas I thought I was clear about that Just like many people who read and post in this forum section who love doing that and experiencing all the ups and downs.

I will research if someone is shipping quality chins from mainland to Hawaii. Seems like my only option to get quality chins here.

Meanwhile I will keep my eyes open for any local posts where owner cannot keep their chinchilla anymore. This is part of my rescue operation

Also yes I thought Critter Nation 162 looked safe for the babies. Not to be confused with ferret nation

 

[Dreamlite]

Research research research. If you read any of the faq sections they stress the importance of pedigrees and genetic health. Look up malo, fur chewing, kidney failure, heart murmurs, seizures.... all genetic things that can be carried without a pedigree.

You say your local breeder does not have quality chins so why produce more low quality animals? I would take the time and import so quality chins or stick with rescue. You mentioned all the chins on craigslist needing homes so that may be a very rewarding way you can work with chins.

Yes 2 females can be housed with a male and critter nation cages can be used. Males and females MUST be separated by 9 weeks old and kept apart until breeding age (8 months to a yr old). They can breed that young and it never ends well.

Keep doing your research. Breeding is about improving the next generation, not producing cute babies. Are you able to get up every 2 hrs to hand raise a kit? Do you have a large vet fund?

 

[obcsed]

Whether breeding or rescuing, a very large vet fund is needed. Many things can go wrong with breeding and rescues often are sick and need vet attention. Stick with rescuing, it is very rewarding when you can bring an abused, neglected animal back to health and watch them warm up to human attention.

 

[tunes]

1. Should I forget my dream and not breed chins because I don't know their pedigree and not yet experienced in determining quality? (please hope not... give me a chance, a sliver of hope... a way I can take care of beautiful chin babies, breed wonderful pets, give them a wonderful life and find good homes for them).

Scary stories will not scare me away so you don't have to post them. As I mentioned before I read this forum for a long time, all the horror stories and wonderful birth stories and seen many pictures. I am ready for anything as I said I raised my own kids and working from home I have plenty of time to do whatever needed to be done.

I do want to breed chinchillas I thought I was clear about that Just like many people who read and post in this forum section who love doing that and experiencing all the ups and downs.

I am confused by your posts. First you ask should you give up your dream of breeding because all you can get are nonpedigreed chins, then you basically say no matter what anyone tells you, you are going to breed. You're not really asking for advice, you want people to say yes! Go for it! You have already made up your mind that you are going to breed and you already know all about it from reading a few threads. I'm not real sure what you want anyone on here to tell you? It sounds more like you made an announcement than that you want any real advice.

 

[nami]

UPDATE! I have rescued my first chin! I am excited and sad at the same moment. The chin is a Standard Gray and she looks very dirty (yellow/brown stains around the belly area). She has a bad odor too. The owner didn't tell me much except that I can have her for free and she is "a bit shy". She looks small and slim, but energetic (drinking and eating) - not sure about the age. I read that I cannot give chinchillas a water bath but I wonder if I can just do it this one time. She looks really dirty. I will take her to the vet later today.

Breeding or rescue, I can afford anything that they will need. I am prepared to spend up to $1,000 per quality chin if I can find someone who ships to Hawaii (perhaps from California since it is the shortest distance?). I thought my options were to only get a chin locally but I see now that they can possibly be shipped to here from Mainland.

I do not want to breed weak and sick chins, don't worry... and I did a lot of research already and am still reading every day anything and everything about chins. When someone is looking for a quality chin in a few years, I want to be the one they contact and trust.

 

[nami]

@ tunes, what I meant by saying that "horror stories will not scare me" is that I came here for an advice on how to breed quality chins. Yes, I made up my mind on what I want to do but I want to breed healthy chins, so I came for an advice on how to do it and not to be scared away from it.

I was worried that my only option was to purchase a chin locally and I cannot find any reputable breeder here, in Hawaii so I knew that I might have to give up my dream. I came here hoping to get some more information and not to be judged or scared away. I have just found out that I can have a quality chin shipped to me from Mainland - this is the "chance", a "sliver of hope" I was talking about..... I do not have to give up my dream - breeding happy and healthy quality chins.

 

[Dreamlite]

I agree with tunes. It sounds like you have decided what you are doing and just wanted a pat on the back. If you have ready the horror stories like you say you have, no one would consider the possibility of breeding unpedigreed chins that could have malo in their lines. Many large ranchers ship. Look into ryerson or ritterspach. I'm sure there are more breeders who ship. If the chins find homes so easily is there really a need to rescue?

 

[nami]

Yes breeding chins is something I want to do just like other breeders reading this forum. I thought my only option was to buy chins here locally however I see now that they can be shipped from Mainland. If I didn't care and didn't need an advice I wouldn't post here anything at all. Yes baby chins find home fast because there is only about 1 baby per month for sale in the whole island because there is only one hobby breeder here with 5 breeding chins. Others are just 1 time accidents or so. The chins that need home are those that owners can't keep anymore because they have to move from the island. I see such posts about twice a year on average. I plan on rescuing those for example if they can't find new homes. Not many want an adult chin.

Thank you everybody for information. I wish you all the best.

 

[Vyxxin]

There is a reason that most chinchilla breeders are breeders only and most rescues are rescues only...if you want to do it RIGHT, it's very emotionally & financially draining. I'd say, pick one path and go with it. Something to keep in mind is that all chinchillas grow up...do you know how often a chinchilla is passed around during it's lifetime?!? I'd say the average chinchilla sees three different homes at least in it's lifetime

My suggestion would be, if you're truly dedicated to doing things right...in an area with few options selling SHOULD be easier...so get set up to breed PROPERLY. There ARE breeders that ship, but it WILL be costly. You say you have funding, so that shouldn't be an issue at all. Find a quality breeder that ships, have them ship two females and a male to give you a good start. ONLY do this IF you have, as mentioned, a vet that can do an emergency C-section at all hours of the day...this is a MUST because it is NOT an uncommon problem. If you have an emergency vet that does treat chinchillas...that's where you want to start if you've read all you think you need to read. It is summer, nobody ships right now as far as I know. So you have a few months to get your ducks in a row...STOP your rescue operation for now. Get ready to breed, I mean READY...and then go from there.

There are SO many genetic ailments, some that even after 10yrs in breeding *I* was unaware of (such as bilateral synechia) that can drastically reduce a lifespan or life quality in a hurry. You don't want to propagate that. On the flipside, the chances of you ever making a chinchilla show? Or your customers wanting show quality chinchillas? Not very high...so I would aim for HEALTHY...specify this to the rancher you choose. That top show placement isn't the biggest priority but top HEALTH is.

Like I said, it's very difficult to dedicate the proper funds and effort into BOTH rescue and breeding...this is coming from someone who ACTIVELY does both. The problem with chinchillas is definitely more than dog or cat over population...because chinchillas live longer. Period. SO, if you start small...you'll have time to figure out if it's the right choice AND monitor the local classifieds to see if more chinchillas are being given up...if they are, you may want to AT THAT POINT...switch to rescue mode and quit breeding. JMO

 

[ticklechin]

Rescue or breeder, in my opinion neither is a option until experience is aquired by just owning then as pets and having pet issues. Rescues are not for newbies.