Help With 2 Surprise Kits Please?!.

[chinchillasparkles]

Hi everyone, I'm new here, and I need some advice.

In December 2013 I purchased 2, 5 month old male chinchillas from a pet shop. 1 standard grey, and 1 white mosaic. Approximately 24 hours later the Mosaic had a seizure, unfortunately everything happened so fast there was nothing I could do. Poor little thing died. So I went searching locally and found a lady who was looking to rehome one (out of 4) of her male chinchillas, as he wasn't getting along well with the others.

He was around 4 years old when I got him, and he became best of friends with the other chin. For the past 8 months they've been living in harmony, no squabbles or (observed) sexual behaviour between them. So imagine my surprise when I wake up and find 2 little kits suckling on my male chin if you haven't already figured it out...he...was a she *sighs*

The kits are lovely, and I've observed them running around, and climing the side of the cage. After a few busy days I haven't handled them for while (48-72 hours) and for some reason I have a feeling that they are slightly older than a day, and I just missed them when I was changing the chins water. and feeding them. Sorry if this is too long.

Anyways I now have quite a few questions:

1) Can I leave dad in the cage? If not, why?

2) How do I kit-proof the cage? The bar spacing is correct, but what about things like additional floors - their current cage has 3 different levels and 2 ladders - what should I cover wire floors, shelves, ladders with?

3) When can kits start nibbling mums food? Until then do I have to make sure it's out of reach of the kits?

4) What kind of 'nest' or den can I provide?

5) What temperature does the room need to be?

6) What kind of issues should I be looking out for?

7) How often/for how long should I handle them? And when?

8) Should I wean at 8 or 10 weeks?

9) When I do wean them, how do I do it?

10) One is male, one is female, at which age do they need to be separated from parents to stop inbreeding?

11) When should I let them go to new homes? 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks?

12) I'm 100% sure they've already mated again, I know the average pregnancy is 111 days, but how much earlier/later can kits arrive?

13) How do I know if mum is producing enough milk for her kits?

14) Each kit is 40g, how much weight should they gain/how fast?

15) As they have already made a strong bond, would it be cruel to seperate them? I really don't want to...

16) If I learn more about breeding, would it be okay to continue breeding the pair? I mean I never would have ever, but now that this has happened, what's the harm in kits 4 times a year? What would your opinion be if I continued to let them breed?

17) From the photos below, do my chins look the part? They have lovely temperaments, very chilled back guys.

18) What qualities should be looked for in a potential breeding chinchilla (make & female)?

19) Am I right in believing my Sparky (dad) is a standard grey? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

20) What color would you classify Pookie (mum) She has white/light grey/ginger (only a little) fur and pink ears.

21) What colors are the kits classified as?

22) What fur color combinations could Sparky and Pookie produce? Is it just the two colours of the kits?

23) How old would you guess the kits are from the photos and description? 1 day old, 2 days, 3 days?..

24) Until what age can a female chin safely have kits? Is 8-12 the earliest?

25) What do you think of the parents and kits?

Pictures in order; Sparky (dad), Pookie (mum), Female Kit, Male Kit, (left to right) Male Kit & Female Kit.

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If you could take the time to answer all of my questions, it would be appreciated so much! I've been preparing and learning all night...I don't want anything to go wrong, and now I'm just really curious any help/suggestions is more than welcome! Thanks.

 

[tunes]

First, here's an FAQ for you to read, just in case: http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21


1) Can I leave dad in the cage? If not, why?
That depends. Do you want mom to get bred over and over and over again? She can be bred while she is still pregnant. It's called a breedback.

2) How do I kit-proof the cage? The bar spacing is correct, but what about things like additional floors - their current cage has 3 different levels and 2 ladders - what should I cover wire floors, shelves, ladders with?
Take out ramps, ledges, ladders. If you cannot remove them, then I would switch mom and kits to another cage. You can cover them with fleece, but that isn't going to stop falls. Kits can get hurt easily falling from shelves and I would never use wire bottom cages with kits (or adults either, but that's just my preference).

3) When can kits start nibbling mums food? Until then do I have to make sure it's out of reach of the kits?
Kits will generally start munching here and there within the first week. It's perfectly fine for them to do so. They can have hay and pellets

4) What kind of 'nest' or den can I provide?
I just use a wooden house made out of chin safe wood. I have also used fiddlestix in the past (a kind of log hut type thing) and in a pinch a cardboard box until I could get a wood house put together.

5) What temperature does the room need to be?
My chin room does not get above 65 degrees in the hottest weather.

6) What kind of issues should I be looking out for?
Please see the FAQ I linked to above. It should cover most of this question. The other thing would be to watch mom for mastitis of mom's breasts/teets.

7) How often/for how long should I handle them? And when?
That depends on mom. Some are okay with it, some get worked up and nervous. You can certainly handle them daily, but I wouldn't keep them out for long periods of time. They are just little and need to be nursing.

8) Should I wean at 8 or 10 weeks?
Eight.

9) When I do wean them, how do I do it?
Take them away from mom, put them in a new cage if they are same sex, two cages if they are not. If you have boys and girls, put the girls with mom in one cage and the boys with dad in another. Keeps you from worrying about them breeding again.

10) One is male, one is female, at which age do they need to be separated from parents to stop inbreeding?
Again, eight weeks.

11) When should I let them go to new homes? 10 weeks, 12 weeks, 14 weeks?
I usually wait at least two to four weeks after weaning. I like to make sure they are gaining well and eating, pooping, peeing normally - all that fun chin stuff.

12) I'm 100% sure they've already mated again, I know the average pregnancy is 111 days, but how much earlier/later can kits arrive?
Unless something is wrong, she shouldn't go early or overly late. 111 days doesn't mean anything though unless you know the exact moment that conception took place.

13) How do I know if mum is producing enough milk for her kits?
Weigh them at the same time every day.

14) Each kit is 40g, how much weight should they gain/how fast?
There is no way to know. Kits gain differently. They should gain a couple gm a day at first and then gradually slow down as they get older.

15) As they have already made a strong bond, would it be cruel to seperate them? I really don't want to...
Then she will breed over and over forever. It will take a toll on her body eventually and she should be bred for the right reasons not just because you don't want to separate them. There are enough chins in rescue already because of that.

16) If I learn more about breeding, would it be okay to continue breeding the pair? I mean I never would have ever, but now that this has happened, what's the harm in kits 4 times a year? What would your opinion be if I continued to let them breed?
I don't know. Would you want to be pregnant every 111 days? I don't let my females breed like that. I will never let my females breed like that. Do you have pedigrees on these animals? Can you trace their health history? Are they worth breeding by show standards? All chins are adorable, that doesn't mean they should be bred.

17) From the photos below, do my chins look the part? They have lovely temperaments, very chilled back guys.
Please see answer below.

18) What qualities should be looked for in a potential breeding chinchilla (make & female)?
You need to find a mentor who has shown and can show you firsthand what qualities to look for in breeding animals.

19) Am I right in believing my Sparky (dad) is a standard grey? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I am unfamiliar with that hosting site and it wants me to log in and download pictures. There are lots of blinking girl pictures on the side, so I'm not comfortable with that. My virus program needs updated.

20) What color would you classify Pookie (mum) She has white/light grey/ginger (only a little) fur and pink ears.

21) What colors are the kits classified as?

22) What fur color combinations could Sparky and Pookie produce? Is it just the two colours of the kits?

23) How old would you guess the kits are from the photos and description? 1 day old, 2 days, 3 days?..
There is really no way to know that from a picture. Some kits come out looking like they are two weeks old others like premies.

24) Until what age can a female chin safely have kits? Is 8-12 the earliest?
Black velvets tend to be bred earlier, around 10 months. Normally I don't put a chin into breeding until they are 11-12 months.

25) What do you think of the parents and kits?

 

[chinchillasparkles]

Thank You! Also, could somebody please explain to me, how to edit your own thread from a mobile device? Cheers.

 

[BooBoo*TheKiddo*]

16) If I learn more about breeding, would it be okay to continue breeding the pair? I mean I never would have ever, but now that this has happened, what's the harm in kits 4 times a year? What would your opinion be if I continued to let them breed?

What do you plan to do with all these kits? How many will end up in one of the rescues who are already overflowing with chins.


Tunes answered all your questions perfectly, I'll answer your question about colors.

Sparky looks like a Standard.
Pookie is a beige.
Female kit also looks like a beige.
Male kit looks like a Standard also.

All look like they could use a bath.
Mom must wait 10 days after delivery before she can have a bath, if I remember correctly. I'd let the kits bath then as well so Mom can show them.
And I'd separate Mom and Dad.

 

[chinchillasparkles]

What do you plan to do with all these kits? How many will end up in one of the rescues who are already overflowing with chins.


Tunes answered all your questions perfectly, I'll answer your question about colors.

Sparky looks like a Standard.
Pookie is a beige.
Female kit also looks like a beige.
Male kit looks like a Standard also.

All look like they could use a bath.
Mom must wait 10 days after delivery before she can have a bath, if I remember correctly. I'd let the kits bath then as well so Mom can show them.
And I'd separate Mom and Dad.

Thanks I plan on homing them with people locally. I did some research about chinchillas in rescues and it made me really sad...I personally live on an island with only one (multi) animal rescue. I've seen rabbits, guinea pigs, rodents, even ferrets, but never have I seen a chinchilla there. Most chinchillas are imported in from the uk, and I don't know of any local breeders, but plenty of people looking for chinchillas. I absolutely adore chins, such lovely natured little creatures, and I would love to breed them 'properly' (ie. not because one was the wrong sex) someday. Thanks again for informing me; both of you! I really appreciate it.

 

[Shenanigans]

Again, I agree with all the above. For your question on what your chins could produce (Not that I think they SHOULD) here's a calculator that works for all but blue diamonds.
http://www.silverfallchinchilla.com/genetics/ChinCrossCalculator.aspx
Ratios depend on if mom is ****- or hetero-beige. If both her genes were beige you shouldn't have got a standard kit. I'm guessing mom has one beige gene and one standard gene (hetero-beige) from ****oo's answer. So your kits would be half standard and half hetero-beige (they carry the standard gene).

I have never bred chinchillas. I have bred an outstanding golden retriever after doing a ton of work. I did CERT and OFA testing to make sure she was good genetically to enhance the breed rather than just make puppies. I found a stud with the same tests done and a champion linage like my girl- you typically want AT LEAST 5 generations of very good pedigree in a breeding animal (you also have to make sure neither dog had a kind of doggy STD that can also be passed on other ways but can result in some nastiness, to my knowledge chins don't have anything like that though). I made sure their good qualities would enhance each other without compounding any faults. From my experience breeding I know you need to know a lot more than you do now if you're considering it. Take a look at the breeding section. Look at the horror stories and make sure your up for that. Are you ok with chancing the mom's life four times a year for kits? And to reiterate from Tune's post- there are a lot of chins in rescues. What are your chin's qualities that make them so good that they should reproduce? If they aren't top quality and you don't know their pedigree you probably shouldn't breed. There are genetic diseases that could come up and many problems that could cos the mom and kits their lives- not to mention high vet bills. Mom may need a c-section. Are you prepared to deal with that? And mom needs a break. Think of humans- Should a woman breed as soon as she had a baby? even with a three month break a human woman could probably have 20 babies in 20 years. But that's a HUGE toll on the body. It's not nice to do to your girl. I'm not sure of the standard practice with chins, but with dogs breeders typically allow one heat cycle in between breeding (unless they're a puppy mill). Again with dogs (simply because hats where my breeding experience is) a good breeder acknowledges they are responsible for the life they created. If at ANY point in that animals life it needs to come back to you, you should be prepared to take it in. If it has genetic issues and the new owner cant provide for it? Would you be prepared to take any kit back and take care of it? even ten years down the road? There's a lot to consider if you are looking into breeding. I don't want to come off as mean as I probably am, but its a serious matter and you need to think of all the possibilities.

 

[jbcstratton]

Standard and beige kits, mom is beige. I agree they need dust baths, and if they aren't pedigreed you shouldn't breed them. I would pair male kit with dad when old enough and female with mom. I would separate the male now even if he hasn't already bred the mother back she can likely get pregnant before you wean the kits. Other thing I noticed is the food, pellets should not contain treats. Good luck!

 

[chinchillasparkles]

Thank you; both of you That bright coloured food you see is supposedly chinchilla trail mix, I read that this isn't very good for them. I'm now feeding complete pellets for chinchillas, but they're not too keen about them; does anybody have any food brand recommendations? After considering the idea, I have decided to pair mum + daughter & father + son. Thanks again to everyone who answered my questions. :thumbsup:

 

[J0L3N3]

I hope and know that everything will go smoothly because you're trying so hard to be prepared! Good for you! Keep me posted on your experience!