Help please

[thawk87]

I am afraid that my chinchilla is not going to make it through the night. I have had him to 3 different vets who have all run blood work, taken xrays, and preformed exams. He is lethargic and not eating. He is only drinking when I hold the water bottle to his mouth. His fur is soaked and matted. I just dont know what else to do for him. I have owned several chins over the years and he is just a medical mystery to me. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[ticklechin]

Chin has severe teeth isses since the fur is soaked and matted, drool is caused from mouth pain. Chin needed a veterinary dentist who knows chins to look at it but it sounds like its too late for treatment, chin should have been hand fed since the start of symptoms until diagnosed-chins who don't eat need to be fed, chins who don't eat digestive system will shut down and die in a short period of time, as little as 24 hours, sounds like the chin is now in stasis from not being fed. Most vets do not know chins and chin teeth problems are not always external and require a expert to diagnose and until then no matter how long until diagnosis chin is fed at least 60ml up to 120ml of critical care a day broke up into 4-6 feedings and pain meds are given. At this point the humane thing to do is to consider PTS.

 

[thawk87]

I have had him to someone who specialised in Chins and they found nothing wrong with him. He has been to 3 different dr's and blood work and xrays at each. I have been hand feeding him and he has been on CC since August. We have been dropper feeding him a formula since Sunday night. All of the vets have said his teeth were fine.

 

[Riven]

Why has he been on CC since August?

What were the xrays taken of?

How do you know they specialized in chins? Did THEY tell you that or did you get your information from someone who knows about chins and recommended them?

 

[thawk87]

He has been on it since Aug while they try to figure out what is going on with him to supplement the hand feedings. He is still pooping even now with the formula. He had what they called a "dental xray", one of the abdomen, skull, and chest. Pretty much whole body at all 3 places. I was recomended to the one by the breeder I got some of my other chins from and when that turned up nothing I looked for another one that saw exotics with reviews and they stated they specialized in Chins.

 

[ticklechin]

If this chin has been hand fed like you say since august the teeth will be overgrown from that and the chin would have needed at least one filing if not more. Drool is mouth pain or head pain. Bloodwork is useless to diagnose this issue, chin needed to be put under with gas and had a complete dental exam and periodontal exam by a vet dentist-regular vets don't know squat about teeth or what they are looking at unless they do ALOT of chins. Whatever you are "dropper" feeding him will not give a chin enough nutrition or fiber since you would need droppers full and droppers full of anything that would fit in a dropper. Chins need at least 60ml to 120ml of critical care a day, that would be droppers up the wazoo. The x-rays should have been sent out to a x-ray specialist to be read, most vets are idgits when it comes to reading them, especially when the chin is on deaths door and nothing was found, that is a vet who really cares rather that the type who treats chins like a disposible pet. So no, no everything has been done-x-rays read by a x-ray specialist, chin refered to a vet dentist, chin put on pain meds, chin fed at least 60ml of feed not "dropper formula", chin put under and had a dental exam and perio exam by a VET DENTIST, maybe a course of antibiotics to hedge the bet is could be a soft tissue infection.

 

[ticklechin]

He has been on it since Aug while they try to figure out what is going on with him to supplement the hand feedings. He is still pooping even now with the formula. He had what they called a "dental xray", one of the abdomen, skull, and chest. Pretty much whole body at all 3 places. I was recomended to the one by the breeder I got some of my other chins from and when that turned up nothing I looked for another one that saw exotics with reviews and they stated they specialized in Chins.

Chin would need at least a laterolateral and dorsoventral x-rays of the head and at least 2 more if nothing is seen on those. One x-ray of the head is not doing a good diagnostic of the problem.

 

[meiying]

Thawk87, what is your location? Maybe memebers here can suggest good vets for you in your area? Sorry, I dont know what to say

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Do you have any copies of the xrays you can post? Not sure it will help if they weren't taken from the proper angle but it might show something...

 

[thawk87]

I am located in NE Ohio, and I dont have any copys of the xrays. I will say he is no longer with us, he passed in my arms the other night. We took him to the vet nad they are going to do a ne cropsy, because I want to know what went wrong. Seeing as he is not my first and is still not my only chin. Also yes, I know it is droppers out the wazoo. I was feeding him 5-1mL groppers every 2 hours from when he stoped eating when I was hand feeding. The avg day he would get 11-14 feedings like that.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

sorry to hear he didn't make it please update us with the necropsy when you get it.

 

[Pookinaround]

I am so sorry for your loss May your sweet baby RIP.

 

[thawk87]

Got the results today from the vet, his jaw was slightly misformed. Thwey believe related to to much inter-breeding of related chins by the breeder. Apparently that slight malformation would not be as noticiable on a x-ray as it was once they got in there and were looking at it. They believe that made it painfull for him to eat and he just pretty much gave up because of that. I went ahead and had them send out blood for DNA testing to see how much inter-breeding there was and if there was any I fully intend to have that breeder shut down, so no one else has to go through this.

 

[aydree]

That is terrible! Thank you for going the extra mile to do what's right. I'm sorry about the way things panned out nobody deserves to have to see their beloved pet suffer and no pet should suffer because of irresponsible breeding


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[ticklechin]

What DNA testing are you talking about? And what kind of necropsy did this vet do to "expose" this malformed jaw that a x-ray took from many angles or a oral exam under gas would not have seen? Did they skin the head or use beetles to eat the flesh? What you say makes no sense, especially the DNA testing for inbreeding. And if you are talking about DNA testing for malocclusion, won't happen in your lifetime.

From chinchillas.com

In 2004, Chinchillas.com spent several thousand dollars working with a private DNA based blood tying lab in New York. One of the things we were hoping to develop was a DNA based blood test that would allow breeders to know if their chinchilla was a 'carrier' for malocclusion. However, since the genes that predispose a chinchilla to malocclude are not a simple set of alleles at a single loci on the chromosomes, it is possible that the ability to detect potential maloccluders from a blood test may be out of reach for us in this lifetime. If it were as simple as finding the recessive violet gene, for example, it would be a test that we could hope to develop possibly in the next few years. We did find out, during our feasibility study stage with the laboratory, that large pharmaceutical companies have spent millions of dollars trying to find a way to test for malocclusion in rats and mice. They have thus far been unsuccessful for the same reasons that plagued us in our research.

 

[Chefscott]

sorry for your loss, just remember he is at peace now, losing a pet is so hard. Sometimes I wonder why I continue to keep getting more pets, but I guess all the good times make up for the time when they pass, keep your spirit shining.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I am confused as well about why they wouldn't have seen any malformation on an X-ray as well...Did you get a report about the necropsy? Did they send it to a state lab or perform it at the vet's office? I have never heard of DNA testing for inbreeding in chins...I hope they aren't just taking money from you...

 

[Riven]

I would like to start of with the exact opposite approach as every pet owner here, how dare you say this is due to irresponsible breeding? Do you know that? It's possible that the breeder you got this animal from ( we don't know who it is I never saw it posted anyway) put lots of money, thought, time, and knowledge into their pairings? That you're off on a whim that it was the breeders fault this happened because a vet who very likely (I might be wrong) knows little about chins ( most don't know much if anything, and do less than 1 chin necropsy a year) said it's because of the breeder?

A DNA could tell the "potency" of certain genes, but does that mean that the breeder purposely bred animals with an issue. Saying that you're going to have that breeder shut down is ridiculous and a great way to get yourself blacklisted from responsible breeders because no one wants to be falsely accused of poor breeding practices. Even if that animal was line bred that doesn't prove anything. The chin could have fallen off of a shelf or out of the cage and that could have also damaged the jaw or caused problems with the jaw. Can you prove that this did not happen? Can you know the chin did not fall out of the cage as a kit? Off of a shelf when you owned it? There is no laws against line breeding so on what grounds are you going to have them shut down on? If you had a pedigree then you would be able to see it right on the pedigree, most reputable breeders give out pedigrees pet people or not.

I agree with what I think Dawn is pointing at, that it's ridiculous to say they saw something in a necropsy that they did not see with xrays or physical exam. Since the results were back 4 days later that is not enough time to have the skull cleaned by beetles unless they had a bunch of very hungry beetles. The chin was eating just enough to sustain barely with 55 to 70 mL daily. You had some great recommendations to see a dental specialist, did you? I personally would love to see the xrays and jaw. You kind of said the xrays don't matter because the chin passed, but yet you want to "prosecute" the breeder? Why not the vets who did not properly diagnose it?

I know this is not a great post to put on someone who recently lost a loved pet, but to me, to read that this is being blamed on the breeder, as a breeder is offensive. Malo is not strictly genetic, and has many environmental factors.


With that said I'm terribly sorry you lost your chin, it's a hard thing to do, but this happens to a lot of people, there is no way to predict what animals will have teeth issues. As Dawn said tons of money has been put into research and trials for it, including hers. You came here looking for help, and you got help from one of the best people who have dealt with teeth issues out of probably the entire chinchilla community at least in the US, if not worldwide. People who have been through what you just went through and more. You're not alone, but threatening one breeder will not solve the issue. If malo could be stopped easily, it would have been done by now. You're money and effort is probably better spent helping other chins or rescues, instead of trying to "take down" one breeder who this doesn't happen again, because in the end, that one breeder is just a drop in the bucket, and really there is no way to prove that it was a genetic issue. If your vet will put that in writing I've love to see it and have his office number.

 

[Aridan]

I would like to extend my condolences on the loss your chin. You obviously were a loving and responsible pet owner, having done so much to try to determine what the issue is, going to more than one vet, having several x-rays done, all the hand feeding, etc. I know it must be so difficult and frustrating, and I just wanted to extend my support for everything you did for your little one.

 

[oldgoat1966]

So sorry...

I'm so sorry to hear of your chins passing. I'm located in Northwestern Ohio. Can you tell me what vets you tried? I have been taking mine down to Medina and I had some trouble with other vets. Again, I'm really, really sorry....Penny