Dominant and Recessive Ebony question.

[Diva Chins]

Hello fellow CnHers. The question of the day is how do you know for sure if an ebony is a recessive and just had two recessives paired together as sire and dam? Like if you want to pair it to a standard, how would you know that you'd get ebonies and standards instead of just standard e/c, or do you just have to breed it to find out? I'm a bit curious, and I figured this would be the best place to ask.
Thanks a ton! (Sorry if it doesn't make sense, this was the best way I could figure out how to word it)

 

[Kansas City Chinchillas]

I consider any offspring out of an ebony parent or ebony carrier parent to be a minimum of an ebony carrier. That said the only way to know what you would get is to breed them.

 

[RMC]

Ebony is nothing more then a chin with a non-white belly. Many different genotypes can produce the "ebony" phenotype ,with many of the different genotypes have been interbred and mixed. some ebony genotypes are recessive,some are dominant and some are accumulative. So any chin out of a ebony parent should be considered a eb carrier.

 

[oxchincerelyxo]

Ebony is nothing more then a chin with a non-white belly. Many different genotypes can produce the "ebony" phenotype ,with many of the different genotypes have been interbred and mixed. some ebony genotypes are recessive,some are dominant and some are accumulative. So any chin out of a ebony parent should be considered a eb carrier.

Seeing as if a chin has an eb parent, the eb gene is passed down. So even if they are born as a standard etc., they have the gene to shoot an eb in a litter. Why sometimes people have litters that don't make any "sense". That's the funny things about genes!

 

[Ash]

From what I understand, ebony is more "co-dominant" rather than fully dominant or recessive. Hence, how you can get the wraps (violet wrap, tans, etc). Also, why standards out of ebonies usually don't have clear white bellies.

 

[starleomach]

I agree if the chinchilla has ebonies in the lines even if it is a standard it is assumed to be an eb carrier and I put it with my ebs/tans ect. Like I have a hansome standard. dad is a top standard and mom is an awsome tov eb. I am going to shoe him, white than white belly on this boy, but if he shows well and I breed him he will be for my dark belly lines, no white bellied girls for this boy. I don't want to dirty my bellies that are white.

 

[RMC]

The breeding research done with the various ebony genotypes clearly show that some are fully dominant ,some are simple recessive and some are accumulative. All known mutation genotypes of chinchilla are at differant gene locations. So it is possible for all to be in the same chin. you can get any combination of dominates, recessives in the same animal as long as they are at different gene locations.

 

[Diva Chins]

Ah, so it's pretty much as I thought. I've just heard stories of chins with ebony in their far lines suddenly producing an eb, which is why I was asking. Although I've also heard of Danko chins that pop ebonies out of no where (Which is understandable, no pedigrees) but I love genetic research. Keeps my mind boggled. Thanks to everyone for the replies!

 

[shuboyje]

I wouldn't be so sure it was out of nowhere. Due to our close proximity, I was in Jack's "dungeon" as he called it more then anyone. His white lines where known to have ebony and sapphire in them, and near the end all his violets had ebony and/or black in them to try and get them darker, which is what he wanted.

 

[Diva Chins]

I wouldn't be so sure it was out of nowhere. Due to our close proximity, I was in Jack's "dungeon" as he called it more then anyone. His white lines where known to have ebony and sapphire in them, and near the end all his violets had ebony and/or black in them to try and get them darker, which is what he wanted.

Oh wow, is that really...Ethical? I mean, uh...I don't know how to put it really. But is it ethical to breed in all of these recessives just because you personally want a darker color? How would those do on the show table (If he did participate)

 

[shuboyje]

Jack was willing to spend the money to get his hands on the best animals he could. Of course that is not a formula to succeed, but he had sporadic streaks of animals who showed well. His whites with the ebony and sapphire in them produced a national section champion one year, but they also produced a 4th place animal in that same show. His violets showed well for a long time when nobody else was really bringing them to shows, but once he crossed in the blacks and ebs to get darker animals he lost some things, although again, he produced some violet wraps who showed very well, as well as a white violet who showed very well(reserve section champion at MCBA nationals if I recall).

Jack's "big pot of stew" method as he called it is not my idea of how to create a herd, but how ethical it was is another question. The bigger ethical question would be the living conditions of the animals in the "dungeon", but luckily that is long gone and nothing to worry about now.