BV question

[6Dusters]

I have a nice BV female that was sold with ticking on her belly. The people who originally bought her were breeding her with ebony. And the seller (a top breeder) recomended that purchase to them.

My question is this. If I take the BV female to a super clean standard will she throw an off color belly to all/some/or none of her offspring? I do realize that each litter will be different. Perhaps I've already answered my question.

I like this female but I don't have any eb males.
Are any of you working with BV and eb lines pairings? If so do you have a market for the offspring?
Thanks,
Alex

 

[Godins Chinchillas]

Alex, you will get all Of the above. I would pair her to an eb. It is hard to get a bright white belly on a black and since she is already lacking in that department I personally wouldn't attempt to clean that up. I'd either sell her (which is what I would do) or put her to a very nice quality eb. I'm not into ebonies so anything with a dirty belly has to go.

 

[threewingedfury]

Alex, I think you did answer your question. The main thing is, try her with a less veiled, somewhat lighter male and see what you get. You sometimes get ticking from breeding two animals with too much veiling or darkness.

I've had to change around quite a few of my lines because I was breeding extra dark to dark animals and noticed a bit of ticking in their offspring.

 

[mishalaa]

I wouldn't use it in anything other than an eb line. I believe Wendy has TOV ebs that do very well... but Tiff's right. If you breed dark to dark too much, you start running into belly problems and that's not easy to clear up. And blacks need to be bred dark to get the most out of their veiling, before it starts wrapping to the belly. Once the belly gets ticked, in standards or blacks, it's time for the eb lines.

 

[EMSChins]

I am not sure that I have ever seen a chinchilla with a ticked belly. Although I guess I can do a fair job of imagining what one would like based on what ticking looks like in a dogs coat, does anyone have a good picture to show those of us who haven't seen one in a chinchilla???

 

[designer chins]

Big fan of TOV eb here!! But I'm biased, since my first National Grand Show was TOV Eb. Ticked bellies go with eb here, if they have the size, conformation, clarity, & fur I want to work with. So far there has a strong market for mine. Heavily veiled blacks are making me crazy. I want a dazzling white belly, contrast! Its a lot of work...but I'm enjoying it! :thumbsup:

 

[VolunteerChin22]

I am not sure that I have ever seen a chinchilla with a ticked belly. Although I guess I can do a fair job of imagining what one would like based on what ticking looks like in a dogs coat, does anyone have a good picture to show those of us who haven't seen one in a chinchilla???

Agreed, not sure ive seen this either

 

[mishalaa]

ticked belly = grey/off white belly

 

[EMSChins]

So it is just an off color belly and doesn't have the black/grey speckling that you would think of when you hear the word "ticking"???

I guess I haven't heard that term before (but then again I am almost deaf so if it is used at shows, I have a good excuse for not hearing it)!

 

[threewingedfury]

Ok, maybe I'm missing something here - but from my understanding, ticking is the darker discoloration in between the front legs due to crossing too much/too dark veiling.

A dirty belly is just a dirty belly, but ticking doesn't necessarily mean a dirty belly.

Alex - is her entire belly gray, or is it just in the front in between the legs?

 

[6Dusters]

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[6Dusters]

Darn it........couldn't get back in time to edit that Tiffany. Let me have a look at her tomorrow in the sun light and I'll post back.

 

[mark miller]

Tiffany, you are right! Ticking is greyish coloring between the front legs and under the chin. It can be from veiling bleeding around into the belly fur under the chin. It can also be from genetic grey in the belly. I've seen chins light color and lacking in veiling coverage still have grey ticking under the chin, so it's not just from over veiling. I know first hand how difficult it is to breed out of your animals once you have it show up in several. We had a real problem with grey ticking and in our bellies in general in the early 1990's. It took my father and I almost 12 years and some very critically selective breeding to clean it up in our standards and black velvets. Anytime you're working with a potential genetic grey gene you have to really evaluate and keep track of the offspring and continue to check related lines of offspring for the gene to pop back up. I've seen genetic grey genes wreak havoc in top breeders show herds. It can be bred out if its not to genetically set in, but if you don't know what you're doing and don't keep track of your offspring and strictly evaluate it in future offspring, it can become genetically set in to all your herd just as easily. It's kind of like playing with fire, sometimes it's ok and sometimes you get burned. I would evaluate the severity of the ticking and decide if it's worth it to try and clean it up with a white belly male. One helpful hint is, if you try choose a male that has a wide white strip of belly fur under his chin rather then a thinner strip of white under the chin. The wider the strip, the easier it is to clean up the ticking in the offspring. Good luck!

 

[ChinnyMom]

ok, for all you 'ticking' experts, what would you call the belly of my Guss (bv)? i know it's not a full belly shot, but the best i have. i am not intending to breed at all, i just want to know. thanks!

 

[mark miller]

Gus has a lot of grey under the chin, between the front legs, and extending into the entire belly. That could not be cleaned up with a couple generations of breeding to a white bellied standard. That is a severe case of ticking and grey belly that should only be used with ebonies if ever bred. Thanks for sharing the photo.

 

[ChinnyMom]

good to know i was able to supply a good example of what not to breed in bv's. )

 

[mark miller]

Chinny Mom, that is a great example of what I just explained in my previous post will happen with ticking in the bellies if not controlled. Presuming that bv does not have ebony in the background, which it may and would explain the amount of grey in the belly. But, if not that bv shows how set in the grey gene can become in the belly if not controlled by the breeder. That particular bv would be crucified at a show because it's belly is way to grey to be put with the other bv's and is not fully colored to be put with the ebony TOV's. It would be down graded at the show no matter which class it was put with. A direct result of irresponsible breeding of chinchillas from a quality standpoint.

 

[ChinnyMom]

i don't know Guss's origins or pedigree. he's had three homes before i rescued him from a house where his cage was filled with plastic, his previous owner put 'comes with leash and ball' in the ad, and the family dog (rottweiler cross!) was allowed to play with Guss. i'd never breed him. heck, i'll never breed chins at all, there are way too many that need rescued as it is. i'll leave the breeding up to you guys that know what you're doing!

 

[6Dusters]

Forgot to post back to this thread. Thank you everyone for your comments. It did help me out a great deal. After having a good look at her I clearly understand that she is a chin that would NOT be a good placement with a standard male due to her belly color.

I did breed her to my best standard male and she produced one kit. That kit did get the same belly as mom. So I will not be putting her into breeding again unless I find a nice ebony male for her. The good news is the little male kit went to his new pet only home today.

Thanks again, Alex

 

[Caroline]

Ok, let me get this straight. Af you breed a med ebony or extra dark ebony to a standard you MAY of you WILL end up with a muddy belly and not a nice white one?