Breeding light, medium and dark standards

[chechinchillas]

What do you think about breeding light, medium and dark standards to different mutations? There are some breeders who only want to breed dark standards and say that standards are about the contrast of the white belly and the dark top. I know breeders who pelt would want the darker standards, but take that out of the equation. Clarity of course for any shade. White bellies unless breeding to ebs or tans. It makes sense to breed the dark standards to bv's and ebs, but what do you like to breed to saps and violets, etc?

 

[Sycamore Chins]

Depends on what you want to produce.
If you want lighter sapphires and violets I would use lighter standards, and vice versa. I don't breed either, but the lighter violets and sapphires appeal to me. Just as lighter beiges appeal to me more than darker beiges, so I plan on putting lighter standards with my pink whites and beiges.
As for standards, the darker animals seem to do better on the show table, so I tend to stick with breeding darker standards. (plus really dark standards with really white bellies are just plain stunning) If I show a lighter standard, I put more emphasis on the judges comments than on it's placing.

 

[saphire]

It depends on the phases I want in my recessive mutations.

I like light and med sapphires, violets
I like med to dark lowes recessive whites

So I breed light, med and dark to my mutations.

My pure standards will never win a GSC, basically the chances of me ever winning a GSC with any of my animals are remotely nul because of my choices in phases and mutations.

But I show as much as I can to get the judges comments and see if I am still in the game and not barn blind.

Although I will say this again, I love the muts that I breed... but my favourite of all colors is the standards in all their phases.

 

[Kylelemler]

Here we light lighter standards for beiges, but generally if everything else is equal they seem to like darker beiges better than light ones on the show table. But we like darker standards for our black velvet lines. So with our limited amount of space and trying to have both variety of standards ( light and dark) proves to be a challenge.

 

[VolunteerChin22]

Lighter standards seem to be favored with white lines. I wouldnt use a lighter phase with anything I was trying to breed tov...

 

[Snickers]

I was told to use dark, extra dark standards with bv and your darker animals. Use light to medium standards with beige, violets, etc.

 

[ChinchillasByDesign]

IMO, I dont so much care about the phase of the animal (I know Kyle said we only use light standards for out beige lines, but that isnt always true) I am more concerned about the clarity of the animal. Darker phased animals that are very blue normally will do better on the table than the lighter phased animals. Now, for me, I do prefer the lighter beige, so the general rule of thumb is that I use a blue lighter phased standard for those lines.

 

[threewingedfury]

I think it really depends on the breeder's goal as to what they should use. I want to produce extra dark standards and black velvets so I prefer to use dark and extra dark animals in my lines but I have to be careful on their clarity and make sure I don't end up with red animals or over veiling. I don't breed sapphires and I personally don't like light violets, so I use darker standards to produce darker violet carriers to put in my violet lines and I primarily use black velvet in my violet genes to get TOV so I end up with darker phased violets to begin with. I do have some really blue medium phase standards in my herd to put in with white and beige lines and to brighten up standards that are dark that I'm afraid may become dull in the next generation. I don't own any lights because they don't work in my lines and I don't think they'll really help me in my goals..

 

[Spoof]

I think it really depends on the breeder's goal as to what they should use

I agree with this.

I run the opposite and prefer light to extra light animals. I like them so light the judges can't stand to see them on the show tables. They bring a clarity that you can not get with a darker animal and allow the base colors to show through better on whites.

Granted I do average on the show table with them unless I bring a bowling ball of perfection. On the other hand the Ebonies, tans, violets and whites they have thrown have taken top awards.

I know breeders who pelt would want the darker standards, but take that out of the equation.

I understand the trend here and the reasoning behind it. Using light standards gets me the marbled appearance I love on a chin. The judges hate it with a fiery passion but those colors are what make me passionate about staying in chins and they tend to bring in more money.

My advice is to fill your barn with what *you* want to see. What makes you all excited to run in there and find? Yea, breed for those and when your herd is sick, your life is **** and everything is going to pot it is easier to remember why you keep doing it. )

 

[Vyxxin]

I know breeders who pelt would want the darker standards, but take that out of the equation.

Even taking THIS out of the equation, show standards and pelt standards are one and the same. I've learned my lesson about ligter animals. When you show an admittedly perfect butterball with awesome fur...and they don't go up the table because "they're just not dark enough to compete" well...you learn quickly. It's not just pelting that affects breeding goals. I assume any breeder that shows has the same goal for any given color and even across the colors.

When I first started breeding I was told dark (gray) to dark animals and light (gray) to my whites, sometimes beiges...etc. I think it's BS. After having no selection (in my area) of lighter phased standards to breed my whites too I went with what was available provided the complimented each other in other ways...and you know what? Whites bred to dark and extra dark standards did just fine (and better) on the show table. JMHO on the matter

 

[Riven]

In reality it's about what you want to produce. Darker animal have a darker tip, lighter animals have a lighter tip.

If you breed dark standards to a white you're more apt to get dark tipped whites, because you have more chance to pass on the dark tip, if you have a light std without a dark tip your chances of producing a dark tip are much less obviously.

I spent a couple years trying to darken my standards, in turn my whites got darker as well... it's about what you have and what you want.

 

[Vyxxin]

Yeah, all of my whites are dark tipped...with a LOT of dark tips. To be honest, I love it...and the judges seem to as well (go figure) as my darker whites tend to do better on the show table than my lighter whites (newer lines)

 

[smhluvsmh]

Can someone post pictures of what a light and dark standard looks like? I am curious how much of a difference there is. Thanks!

 

[RDZCRanch]

Shawn, I have pictures of the different phases here except for extra light standards which basically have no veiling tip. http://rdzcranch.webs.com/ChinchillaColorsPage.html

On the whites to darker standards, Vin Somavia talked about that at the 2009 ECBC National meeting. He has been breeding darker standards to whites for quite a few years since all he had available to him were the darkstar animals. He said that while the whites did well initially, the guard hairs eventually ended up much too dark and longer than the rest of the fur. It gave the animals an uneven look and he wouldn't show them knowing they wouldn't stand up on the show table. He was looking into getting medium phased animals to pair back into the white lines, but I don't know if he ever did.

I like the lighter violets and beiges. I don't really use "light" standards as much as medium. Medium standards for me have given the best results for carriers, beiges and whites. I've been told by several ranchers with years of experience breeding every phase of standard to their mutation lines that the best combination for long term breeding goals is to use medium standards with lighter mutations.

I use medium to extra dark standards in my pure standard lines and also in my black velvet lines. You can go too dark with a black velvet which some judges don't like. I find the pitch black that fades to a nice clear grey on the sides and a crisp white belly are the most desirable.

 

[Spoof]

Can someone post pictures of what a light and dark standard looks like? I am curious how much of a difference there is. Thanks!

I also have some pictures here -> http://www.sunsetchinchillas.com/Standard.shtml

Tiffany gave me some even darker standard pictures I need to get up there. It's amazing how much standards have changed over the years.

 

[designer chins]

Its difficult to find a light standard of the quality I'd like to use with mutes, and when I have found one I haven't been successful prying them away from the breeder! I have had good luck overall with mediums/medium darks. My best sapphire carrier male is out of a dark standard male, but the standard is a very clear male with a very nice bar. So far the sapphires out of the s/c male are just lovely! We'll see what the judges think, but I love the color on them. I have heard a many seminars not to use an extra dark standard with a black unless it is an EXTREMELY clear standard as the extra darks tend to add the danger of a red tint to the black offspring. I use dark standards with black, at least thus far. I've been pleased with the results so I'm sticking with it!