Betta Fish

[BooBoo*TheKiddo*]

So I have a 35 gallon fish tank I learned. (At first was told it was a 45 or 55 gallon, or something) But I've tried for I'd say about a year for it to be fish ready, but I can't get the ammonia out of the water. I've been using Prime and tried daily water changes, every other day, etc...etc...etc...
With the help of a member here who have several tanks.

I've had no luck!

After the long frustrations of dealing with it, I'm thinking it is about time to give up. The only local place to buy fish has official shut down and the only place close by the get fish would be...Walmart! Blah.

So, I was hoping someone could give me some info on Betta's. I've heard they can't live together and heard they can give together. True? False? Anyone had success with multiple bettas?

How do you care for them exactly?

How I keep the 35 gallon tank or get a smaller one?

Any info would greatly help! I love fish tanks, just can't get one going when it comes to getting the ammonia levels out. I'd rather have one with a few fish than no fish.
Thanks!

 

[missyjre]

I have 5 female and one male in a 29 gallon they've been in it for a while they lived in a 10 gallon together that I got from a coworker they were already stocked in there. But they do all live peacefully. That male though is a complete pushover and doesn't even flare at his own reflection.

What are you using for your source water and have you checked your rock or sand or whatever to make sure the amonia isn't coming from there. I had some rock in a freshwater tank one that kept my water parameters completely crazy for a long time.. when I took it out the tank straightened up.

 

[ChinnyMom]

male and female bettas shouldn't live together. missjyre's tank is a very special case (where i'm assuming the male and females grew up together from a very young age, and the male is very docile <not common at all!>). to do that yourself Bonnie, would be very risky and you could very easily end up with injured or dead fish.

i can't remember, did you test your tap water for ammonia? that could very well be the problem here. i know we were cycling your tank with cucumber to get the ammonia going, but you should be showing nitrites and nitrates by now (actually a long while ago).

a 'fish-in' cycle could be done here, but daily water changes and lots of Prime will be needed.

 

[perabalaofmystery]

have you tried buying distilled water from a store to fill your fish tank? that might help with ammonia. when i had a tank i always used distilled water. i also used charcoal filers and such.
ive had tons of betas before. they really never did well in groups. though ive actually been able to have one beta at a time in my community fish tank. they were well behaved. theyre ridiculously easy to take care of though i recommend not putting a beta in one of the tinny tanks they try to sell to you . its not good for them theyre to small.

 

[ChinnyMom]

distilled water is not good for fish, as it doesn't have any of the buffers, minerals, and such that fish need to maintain buoyancy (swim bladder function), and to keep healthy.

 

[saphire]

I don't how you started your tank, but this is what I suggest.

So I will tell you how I started mine. You may have done it exactly like this and maybe not. I just hope to add a little something that may help you. If not well, I tried. LOL

1 - rinced the tank, decoration, rocks and filter really well

2 - tested my water added to my tank for PH.

3 - let the filter run for 1-2 days with nothing in it, just to clean up the water, not necessary to do, but I am in no rush.

4 - added Danions (I find them pretty) - one of the strongest and easiest fish to work with, 10 small ones in a 70 gallon. My experience with them is they play with each other and do not annoye the others types of fish. So I didn't have to take in an extra tank for them once my water was ready to receive the fish I orginally had bought the tank for.

5 - I would let it be for a week and test the water to see if it was free of the ammonia and nitrite, nitrate is not as bad, good for plants if you have. Also the PH.

6 - I would not add fish until the water was up to par for the fish I wanted. So if it took 1 month, well so be it. If all was good, I would add fish to the tank on a weekly bases. The amount would depend on the size of the fish being added. And always keeping in mind the 1 inch per gallon rule.

Since my goal was fancy goldfish in a 70 gallon, the maximum I could have would be 7 full size (which I never did, too crowded for my taste). I added 1 inch fancy goldfish (like to see them grow) every week checked the water between each before adding. This way you do not get a surge of ammonia that kill the fish.

So if it is a problem... put prime in your water daily and leave the Danios in to do the job. It should evenually stabalize.

As for the Betta, if your tank has lots of plants, places to hide it should be fine if you have several.

Hope this helps a little

 

[ChinnyMom]

the 1 inch per gallon 'rule' is bunk, IMO. if it were a true rule, my 11 inch oscar would be in an 11 gallon tank. his 55 gallon is getting too small as it is!

you need to have a large enough tank so that the fish can turn around and swim comfortably, while having enough water volume to dilute wastes between water changes, as well as enough filtration to keep up with the fish's waste. that is the rule.

 

[saphire]

It is one square inch to the gallon, not one inch in lenght.
So if your Oscar is 11 inches long and approx 4 inches high, I will say he needs minimum 44 gallons.

 

[saphire]

Oh I also have to add the following.

The square inch rule applies for the oxygen intake of a fish and not it's lenght. For the exception of any goldfish fancy or not, it is 3 gallon per square inch.

I defintely would be very comfortable putting 10, 1 inch Danios in a 10 gallon because they would have plenty of liberty to swim, but my judgement would go against it for a 10inch long fish.

Before having had a 150 gallon tank with neons, shrimps, ancestrus, Dicuss and live plants for 7 years (till all the Discuss died) I made sure I knew the rules. ****oo, I had a male betta in this tank also.

 

[BooBoo*TheKiddo*]

I can only get other fish from the walmart a bit over an hour away and only bettas from the one that is 30 minutes away. Other than that, no where to get fish.
Doesn't the fish you can put in the tank together depend on what kind they are? The walmart with several different kinds of fish, always has different kinds that the time I went before. And I've been told most of them should live with the others.
Which is why I thought about going to Betta's.


Does the tank have to be cycled for Betta's the same as it does for other fish?

 

[ChinnyMom]

yep, the tank needs to be cycled. bettas are just as sensitive to ammonia and nitrites like other fish, the only difference with bettas is that they have a labyrinth organ in addition to their gills, and can breath surface air. the ammonia will still burn the heck out of their gills though, if it is present in the water.

i've kept a male betta with various tropical community fish quite successfully. i've also kept another male betta with snails and shrimp. it all does depend on the temperament of the betta though, as some don't mind living with other fish and some are absolute butt-holes about having anything in their space, including snails.

what i wouldn't do is buy fish from walmart though. their fish are weak and diseased and you will most likely end up with casualties or have to medicate them for something. some fish medications can throw your tank's biological bacteria out of wack, making for raised ammonia. not good. i personally would find another source for your fish, so that you are getting your money's worth and not having to go to a lot of extra trouble to enjoy your tank.

i'd do a search for local 'mom and pop' type fish stores. there's bound to be something in your area. i can also ask around the one fish forum i belong to, as there are tons of American members there, and somebody might know what is local to you. failing that, i say get fish shipped in from somewhere that has quality stock.

 

[~Alex~]

To set up the tank as well you will want to keep in mind what your tap water has in it if you are going that route. Chlorine causes a burning in the gills which will eventually kill any fish. Distilled water is no good and drinking water can have other irritating things in it such as flavoring etc.

I find that the best route was to get water conditioner and treat the tap water. With this method I kept 4 fish alive in a smaller tank with no problems for about 3 years before I could no longer keep up with my tank for a variety of reasons and gave the fish away to someone with a larger tank.

Female bettas can be sometimes kept in a decent size tank in odd numbers. A good number is 5. They can still be aggressive but they will tend to establish a hiearchy as opposed to outright killing eachother. Males should never be kept together! They will likely kill each other. Also keep in mind that bettas do NOT like a lot of moving water in their tank. The filter should be a very flowing one as it can stress them out if it is not.

I tried to keep a betta in a community tank as well. It ended up being that a larger fish picked on him and he had to be taken out so be wary of that too if you are thinking of more then one fish.

If you still want two bettas though consider a solid colored tank divider. It goes right down the middle of the tank and the two can be safely housed together. Make sure it is very high or the tank is covered with no space in the divider. It is not uncommon for bettas to jump the divider and kill eachother.

Just some ideas being thrown out there

 

[BooBoo*TheKiddo*]

Well, everyone do share the ways on how you got the ammonia out of your tank(s).

Sherry - I've checked so far, all the mom and pops closed down. 2 walmarts is all I've got.
ask about the ammonia and bettas because I remember awhile back a girl told me you didn't have to cycle the tanks like you do with bettas

 

[saphire]

I do remember having that problem once, I would change 5 gallons of water daily with bottled water and did that for I can't remember how long, but was over a month. The darn ammonia would still be as strong as ever. I just got fed up and started all over again. I started it with bottled water although I have no choice since we have a well. All fell in order as it should.

Honestly ****oo, that is what I would do. From my experience, I spent lots of money on water, prime and cycle to end up starting over again.

I remember talking to a much older man about fish, he said to me, they never changed the filter, they never put chemicals, would let the tab water stand for a couple of days for the chlorine to evaporate before water changes and that was that.

I now have plenty of plants, 2 fancy goldfish, 5 shrimps and no filter, well yes a 5 gallon filter for a 35 gallon just to have movement at the water level for air. Do my bi-weekly water changes and the plants take care of the nitrate/phosphate, shrimp the algae if any, fish feed the plants. Pretty cool hen! Till now all is good, when there is too much of phospate/nitrate, I just do a change of water every week till it is back to normal. That has happend once in approximately 3 years. To do this though, one has to tend to their tank.

If you are just getting the Betta and there is no other fish in the tank, you can use the water he comes in (it is already cycled) to start off your tank. I don,t know the size of your tank, but don't change the water, just slowly add to it until it is full. (test from time to time) Then you can start adding fish slowly. I think it will help doing it this way.

This way he will have very little stress and the cycle will continue.

 

[saphire]

To add to my Post.

I am in agreement with Alex and Sherry's posts, but want to emphazise on Walmart fish. I have had horrible experiences with their fish. I would not touch.

But I would be comfortable taking a Betta from them and work with it.

Also, I don't use chemicals in my tank nor medicine. I have found that both have messed up my tanks. I now only use Prime for when I am late for a water change. That is the only product I trust and also used the Ph balance products at the time I had Discuss. But now I have chosen fish that are adapted to the PH of the bottled water I buy. All is good.

 

[~Alex~]

Definitely walmart fish are very terrible! I just went through this yesterday with my brother's girlfriend. She bought a bunch of goldfish from walmart. We had told her not to! Any fish I have gotten did not survive the year (or even 3 monthes) and they were often sickly and the employees would leave dead fish in the tanks (which is really bad for levels) but she didnt listen when we told her to just go to petsmart instead if she was going to go to any kind of store. So she got 6 goldfish by the morning 3 of them were dead. Out of curiosity she squeezed this very bloated fish and its stomach burst open and it was full of parasites or something because it was very white and gross like something parasitic is. Just be very careful.

If you really want the betta dont jump into it. Go periodically and look at the fish. Only pick one that has very clear coloring, no missing scales or white or dark spots, fins should be fairly long and flowy and it should respond when you pick up its container or tap on it. Also make sure he is not "pineconing" which is when the scales stick out. This can be a very serious problem. But dont get your hopes up, he may still have underlying problems which are not yet apparent.

I agree with the no chemicals: I never used those slime coat enchancers or anything like that. If you have a healthy tank it is unneeded.

 

[BooBoo*TheKiddo*]

Personally, I don't want to have fish shipped in and then them die. Then I am S.O.L. The weather right now is so unpredictable it is unreal. One day we were in the 70, the next tornados, the next cold, next tornados, then cold and snowing, then warm. It's all messed up.

Walmart is the only place to get fish, I'm afraid. So now I'm faced with...deal with walmart fish or shut the tank down and sell all the supplies.

My tank is 35 gallon. This week I'm going to take everything out of the tank and just put water in it. I'm going to test our tap water this week some time. I will post those numbers.

Okay, so buying gallon jugs of water from the store and put it in the tank. Then cycle from there?

 

[yummychinchillatoys.com]

I had 3 Male Batta's in a 20 gallon tank. I had them for over a year and they never got into a fight or even flared at each other. In my opinion, I think it all depends on the size of the tank. If they have a tiny little tank like the stores try to get you to buy they won't be happy and they get aggressive. If they have a big tank and have things to hide in they are happier and don't need to fight. Also if you have more then one male and only one female, they will fight. In my experience the females are more aggressive then the males.

 

[ChinnyMom]

letting the tap water sit out for a couple days only works if your water is treated with chlorine and not chloramine (an ammonia + chlorine mix). with chloramine, the bond between the chlorine and ammonia keeps the chloramine in the water pretty much indefinitely. my tap water is treated with chloramine, so i must use a dechlorinator. Prime is one of the few dechlors out there that not only neutralizes the chlorine, but also converts the remaining ammonia after breaking the chlorine/ammonia bond into ammonium, which is not harmful to fish the way ammonia is. the only chemical i put into my tanks is Prime, nothing else. and my tap water is rife with chloramine! i can smell it coming out of the tap. yuck.

the water itself from a fish tank will not be 'cycled'. the beneficial bacteria attach themselves to surfaces in the tank and in the filter. there is no free floating good bacteria in the tank water, just fish waste and potential disease. never put the water from a fish bag in your tank!

unless your tap water has a high ammonia content, don't waste your money on bottled water. even if your tap is high ammonia, Prime will convert that ammonia into safe ammonium. ammonium will still show up on your ammonia test, but as long as you have used Prime at the recommended dose (or like me, always a double dose), then you can be sure that there is no ammonia harming your fish.

removing all the gravel, decor, etc and just running the tank bare is a good idea. this removes all contributing factors to your ammonia issue, and allows you to re-introduce each thing (gravel first, then one piece of decor, etc, one at a time) to see where the problem lies. what i do with gravel before adding it to a tank is to wash it repeatedly in a bucket with tap water, then fill bucket (with gravel still in it) with water the same temperature as my tank and give the bucket a hefty dose of Prime, then pour the water out and add gravel to tank. there's my chloramine neurosis there..... lol. i'm always very concerned with residual chloramine leaching out of anything, so i do the Prime dose on anything that goes in my tanks.

to touch on PH: fish will acclimatize to pretty much any ph as long as you acclimate them properly. Bonnie, test your tapwater ph, then test your tank. betcha the tank is lower than the tap! things like TDS (total dissolved solids) and DOC (dissolved organic compounds) will lower the ph. both TDS and DOC are found in any fish tank, even newer uncycled ones. as long as your ph isn't crazy low or crazy high, your fish will be fine. my ph is 7.8 and i do nothing to change it and all my fish have never had an issue, from my first betta to my paratilapia polleni that originates from madagascar.

if walmart is your only option, i would start with some danios from there. they are cheap, and hardy. but first, run the tank bare and add back in things one by one like i mentioned, to see where your ammonia issue is coming from.

 

[saphire]

****oo, I used bottled water only because I have well water being that I live in the country. So I would not take the chance with it.
If you have city water, you can use that. You just want to test the PH, nitrate, phosphate. Yes, I know that is strange, but it should be done. Sometimes even if city water is tested and treated, they have a chart to respect, and that will just let you know where your tank started from. It should be low.

When you get your fish, take young ones. Say you take Angelfish, you will pay less for the young ones. The healty young usually have less trouble adapting to new parameters. They will grow in your tank, therefore a stable environment, less risk of loosing them in the long run. An older fish may have a harder time even healthy. You also have a better idea of their age, to the contrary with a larger fish. Therefore spending big money on a fish that may die in a week of old age. But you won't know and wonder if it has to do with your tank.
Large fish is fun to have, but it is even better when you see them grow. A reminder when you buy your fish, remember not to over do it in the quantity you buy. They Grow

Chinnymom, I agree that 7.8 is okay for many fish, it is not far off from the nuetral zone.
But, if you put Discuss in a 7.8 tank, their colors will not be to their full potential, they will not stay healthy and their lives will be shortened.

When I choose to get fish, no matter the species, I think it is best to have the PH they require for their comfort and to offer them a healthy long life.
When I add, I make sure the fish I add are in the same PH range. I will try to offer them the closest to their natural environment as I can with what is available to me.
That is why my fancy goldfish have lillypad plant covering the light so they have a little darkness, no heavy current so they don't struggle to move, and just calm.. for them. Actually I will put up a picture for when I started it.

To me it is a rule to follow to the best possible when taking in a living creature.

Anyhow ****oo, I am only offering you my experiences, errors and trials. Hope they help. I have taken text books, but found that nothing is black on white. Sometimes there is white on black, and sometimes only grey on grey.

Hope things work well for you. But the great thing is, you have starting of your experience with one of the worst harmful problems (in my opinion) in a tank. That is experience behind your belt.!

good luck.