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Chin Debate Debate chin topics here - PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL!

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  #21  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:37 AM United States
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I left a message at my vet if they have seen it in horses or chins, is there a vaccine for chins and emailed CAchins to see if they have seen it yet, she has horses and chins.
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2013, 11:48 AM United States
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How long has this been going on I wonder...?
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:40 PM United States
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Ya know I just can't hold this one in any longer... I have only been into chins for not quite 2 years now... Starting out you are told go to shows, buy good quality stock from reputable breeders etc... OK fine great...I did that...invested a boatload of money, time and effort... That being said...the problems being mentioned in this thread in addition to the others that we recently discussed in those other 2 threads not that long ago...should REALLY make people stop and think about where the whole future of the chin industry is gonna end up...

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forum...ad.php?t=41946

and

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forum...ad.php?t=41996

The chin community is so small that A LOT of people have animals from pretty much everyone else and the cycle perpetuates... For example I personally have animals from most of the major breeders out here on the East Coast. Now considering that most of the major breeders show...if just one disease gets passed that can be carried...WE ARE ALL TOAST!!! Think about it folks...where is this gonna end up??? The big picture isn't looking too good!!! I agree a vaccine needs to be developed...I have said it before and I'll say it again...

Last edited by Pookinaround; 12-10-2013 at 12:44 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:43 PM United States
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If this is what it is a bacteria as it is claimed to be (Streptoccus equi) then it cannot be vaccinated against (being that vaccines are for viruses, not bacteria), so I am not sure why people are vaccinating against it since it is NOT A VIRUS. Its like people who have the flu and beg their doctor for antibiotics. It just doesn't work that way. You treat bacteria with antibiotics, vaccines can prevent viral infection. One does not work on the other.

Sorry, biology teacher here. :/
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  #25  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:57 PM United States
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Quote:
If this is what it is a bacteria as it is claimed to be (Streptoccus equi) then it cannot be vaccinated against (being that vaccines are for viruses, not bacteria), so I am not sure why people are vaccinating against it since it is NOT A VIRUS. Its like people who have the flu and beg their doctor for antibiotics. It just doesn't work that way. You treat bacteria with antibiotics, vaccines can prevent viral infection. One does not work on the other.

Sorry, biology teacher here. :/
You can vaccinate for bacteria. Tetanus & tuberculosis are caused by bacterial infection and we vaccinate for that. Leptospirosis & lyme disease are bacterial infections in dogs that we vaccinate against as well. The vaccines are either made with a a form of the bacteria or a modified version of the toxin the bacteria produces. A vaccine just strengthens the immune system by introducing the body to the organism and allowing the body to produce antibodies against it - it isn't isolated to just viruses.
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  #26  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:04 PM United States
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I'd worry about the off label usage, too, Sumiko. We need to talk to some vets to get some opinions for sure. I'll talk to my vet hopefully on Thursday just to see what he thinks about it.

If vaccinating each and every chin that comes into the herd is something that needs to be done to prevent this, I am willing to do it....provided that the vaccine isn't too terribly expensive. I vaccinate feral cats that show up here to prevent disease and unnecessary death, I care about the chins a heck of a lot more than them.

I'm concerned because I end up with so many chins that people are (I hate to say this) pretty much throwing away because they don't want them any more. I quarantine them and watch them for many months before I place them with the rest of the chins. With this it sounds like there can be chins that harbor it without displaying symptoms. Pasturella scares me...this is worse. I have to worry, I just wish someone would have told me about it a long time ago.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:11 PM United States
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Yes, I stand corrected, and embarassed. Now this has me more interested to know what vaccines are used to treat this. Keep us posted.
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  #28  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:11 PM United States
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Many medications in the vet industry are used off-label, though I can't recall ever using a vaccine off label. The vaccine for horses is intranasal which is good because many are intramuscular. From my research it looks like the vaccine contains live bacteria, which often times can result in symptoms of the actual disease after vaccinating. In horses they may be minor, but in something as small of a chin, I'm afraid of what the reaction/symptoms would/could be. I would definitely want to see a vaccine developed specifically for chins rather than using the horse vaccine.
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:26 PM United States
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Quote:
Tara, do you need to have a vet administer the equine vaccine or can you purchase it and vaccinate your horse on your own? If it's the same strain and available for purchase, I could potentially see a lot of off-label usage...
You can do it yourself and it is available over the counter at feed stores.

I personally am not going to vaccinate 70+ chinchillas with an intramuscular injection yearly. It's expensive and time consuming and all it does is give them a modified version of it (live vaccine) that is only about 90% preventative. The site injection side effects when they happen are horrible and if you get a case of bastard strangles it's pretty much a guaranteed death. Also, the older they are the more likely it is that they will get bastard strangles and die. They only vaccinate here if it is a young horse. The older horses have a higher chance of surviving strangles than the vaccine if it goes wrong.

For those that have never vaccinated anything; you'd be giving your chinchilla Strangles and hoping they built up an immunity to it. That isn't a solution.

Personally if I did get it I'd put them down, sterilize the heck out of everything and start over (or retire). No point in messing with it. If it is your pet, just keep them away from other chinchillas and practice good personal hygene.
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  #30  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:28 PM United States
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Quote:
The vaccine for horses is intranasal
The intranasal one is not very effective, it isn't even offered in the south any more.

Again, this isn't going to protect your chinchilla, it's going to introduce it into your herd. There is no cure and no treatment, just good husbandry when the (horse) gets it. Antibiotics have a very limited effect, surgery is more effective once they abscess.
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