How early is too early to wean? Mom can't feed all the kits, is losing weight

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Mazuri isn't a bad feed, Kat. You shouldn't feel bad about that. I've used it for over 15 years without any problems. It's all about a matter of opinion that has a lot to do with price and other factors. It isn't a bad feed. I wish that people wouldn't have made it seem like it is.
 
AZChins said:
Mazuri isn't a bad feed, Kat. You shouldn't feel bad about that. I've used it for over 15 years without any problems. It's all about a matter of opinion that has a lot to do with price and other factors. It isn't a bad feed. I wish that people wouldn't have made it seem like it is.
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I have to agree with this. I've been using Mazuri for the last 10 years, for both my chins and the rescues, and over 10 years, I've only had a total of three chins get loose poos from it (which were then switched to a different feed). The comment is often that it's a bad food cause it causes loose poos.. but I haven't found that to be as big an issue as it's made out to be. From personal experience, I say it's fine.
 
Homo beige chin

Godins Chinchillas said:
if the kits were doing fine without mom why would you put them back? Mom may have already started drying up and now you've introduced them back where they could all start fighting for whatever is left over.

@Joanne- why would you offer this person a chin of yours? I'm dumb founded.
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I am so sorry that you are dumbfounded. I did not intend to "offer" Erica a homo-beige chin, but rather to let her know that there are such animals for sale and that she need not just breed two hetro beige of any quality together in order to have a homo. When I finished my post, I felt as if it might sound like a sales pitch. Not my intention at all and so I added that there are probably some closer to where she lives. Hopefully, she will seek out a reputable breeder near her that can mentor and assist her in her quest for homo beige. I mentioned my situation as well to dispell the impression that Beige are "rare" I am sorry if I did not communicate my message in a manner that was well received. I truly did not intend to offend in any way.
Chincerely
 
Joanne- No need for apologies. I was not offended by any means. Just for me personally- I don't think I could send her an animal of any quality at this point. Would I mentor her? Yes if she asked for help I would but I am not sure she really wants any of us to really help her out. I think if she takes our advice and change their diet she will see a world of difference in her animals. Your animals can only obtain their true potential by the feed and environment you give them.
 
jags said:
The last thing I am going to say is that what you read on the tag means nothing as far as the quality of the pellet. Its a big misconception that just because the tags may say about the same thing that the feed is about the same thing. When tested there is a huge difference. Believe me I have spent a ton of money testing feeds and comparing them to what tags say should be in the feed. For you and your animals sake do some research into feed, how its made and what the animals can get out of it. People do not realize that protein, fiber and other components all have several types to them and the animal can not utilize all parts of them. A lot depends on how much of the portion is good compared to how much non usable to the animal. Fixed feed formulas are also something that makes a huge difference.

Again remember the feed tags really do not mean much of anything as to quality or even what is really in the feed. To me feed tags mean absolutely nothing.
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Nutrition facts do matter. Ingredients do matter. Discounting a food solely because its distributor is Walmart and marketed towards rabbits while giving no other reason is illogical.
You all continue to ignore my arguments and just state that I am wrong without explanation. Why is my feed a bad quality feed? The top four ingredients are the same as Mazuri. Yet instead of addressing that issue and discussing it you just say to ignore the tag and trust the brand; something I feel is more irresponsible than comparing ingredients and thinking about them. I chose the food with the same ingredients but none of the added sugar and fat. My chinchillas are all healthy. The only time one lost weight too fast was when she had three kits, which is very excusable. As soon as she only had one kit she gained 21 grams while feeding it. Therefore I see nothing wrong with my base pellet.

You all keep ignoring me and just telling me I'm wrong. Really you have not provided any logical argument as to why I am wrong. "Ignore the tag and trust me" is not going to sway me to your opinion, sorry.

jags said:
When tested there is a huge difference.
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What difference is that? Explain it to me, don't just gloss over it and tell me to trust you instead of the nutrition facts.
 
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Godins Chinchillas said:
if the kits were doing fine without mom why would you put them back? Mom may have already started drying up and now you've introduced them back where they could all start fighting for whatever is left over.
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Because although the kits have stayed alive without their mom, they didn't gain as much weight as the kit I left with her. They are still under the 200 gram mark (7 week mark, too) so I prefer them to be with their mom. I am monitoring them and they are not fighting. They are all cuddling in a big ball. They are eating hay with vigor next to her. In the cage by themselves they weren't as happy and weren't eating hay with this enthusiasm.
 
NiftyKat said:
I don't even have my chins yet, but know everything you have said Erica is just wrong, wrong, wrong! I personally would not feed dollar store stuff to even my cats who's systems aren't as delicate as a chinchillas!
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If your local dollar store sold untreated grape and willow vines that were all natural with no pesticides, preservatives, or anything on them, would you give them to your chinchillas?
 
As far as the pellets go, I asked the bunny people I know and the pellets are made by manna pro. The problem with them is the protein level is too low for breeding rabbits, its ok for pet rabbits but the pet rabbits lose condtion due to the low protein and fat content. And the pellets are often over a year old, so they are stale. The OP should chose a pellet that has a higher protein/fat content for breeding.
 
EricaWieser said:
If your local dollar store sold untreated grape and willow vines that were all natural with no pesticides, preservatives, or anything on them, would you give them to your chinchillas?
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I don't think you understand, ANY wood product that comes into the USA is treated, there are NO untreated wood product that come into the USA, and ALL the wood products that are at the dollar store are from China and beyond.
 
Erica, you have no way to know the items at the dollar store are not treated. Anything I've ever seen in stores, and I've worked in retail for little over a decade now, that has anything to do with wood, has some kind of treatment or varnish or schelak (sp?) on it. You even said you give your chins WICKER to chew on, which from what I've seen is usually varnished, especially at the dollar store.

You say no one is listening to your arguments, however, you are not listening to a MILLION other people's arguments against you. People with LOADS more experience in chinchillas than you. Even I seem to know more about chinchillas than you and I've only been researching since the end of January, mind you it has been tons of research.

Once again, pure and simple, I think you were looking for a "get rich quick scheme" and thought chinchillas might be the way to do it. For some reason, people seem to think breeding animals and selling them for loads of money is easy. That however is not usually the case. If you cared about your animals, you would be spending more on their food and their treats, and not trying to justify why your cheap options are okay.

At this point you're just being stubborn, and are probably going to end up hurting your animals in the end. This just angers me more than you know, cause I take better care of my animals than I do myself because they are THAT important to me. Cause honestly, who feeds an herbivore RAWHIDE?!
 
To the OP,
Would you be open to trying a new feed and seeing for yourself if weight and condition improve?

I've tried Mazuri, tradition, and mana pro over the course of ten years (at different times) before landing on Purina rabbit show formula. It's been the best option for me. I had problems with weight loss on my old, safe and recommended feed.

Try a switch and see what you think by your own observations.
 
EricaWieser said:
Nutrition facts do matter. Ingredients do matter. Discounting a food solely because its distributor is Walmart and marketed towards rabbits while giving no other reason is illogical.
You all continue to ignore my arguments and just state that I am wrong without explanation. Why is my feed a bad quality feed? The top four ingredients are the same as Mazuri. Yet instead of addressing that issue and discussing it you just say to ignore the tag and trust the brand; something I feel is more irresponsible than comparing ingredients and thinking about them. I chose the food with the same ingredients but none of the added sugar and fat. My chinchillas are all healthy. The only time one lost weight too fast was when she had three kits, which is very excusable. As soon as she only had one kit she gained 21 grams while feeding it. Therefore I see nothing wrong with my base pellet.

You all keep ignoring me and just telling me I'm wrong. Really you have not provided any logical argument as to why I am wrong. "Ignore the tag and trust me" is not going to sway me to your opinion, sorry.
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They are NOT ignoring you, you are glossing over the facts they are giving you and dismissing them as insignificant because of what your bag of feed says. The order of the ingredients can make a HUGE difference. It just tells you there is more of this or that in the bag, but it does not tell you how much more or less of each of those ingredients there are. Walmart is a huge chain store, they do not carry fresh feed at all times like a feed store does and there is no mill date stamped onto the bags. Their feed sits in warehouses for months, even years before making it to your particular store shelf...it does not go from the mill to the store. You are NOT guaranteed freshness which is a HUGE factor in feed for chinchillas since their digestive systems are so sensitive. There is also the quality of each ingredient used in the feed. It may SAY it is the same thing as other feeds, but those ingredients are not selected with the health of the animal in mind. They are selected by the price of the ingredient which means you are getting the lowest quality ingredients in that feed so that Walmart can sell it at the lowest price possible. I pay $16.95 for a 50# bag of my feed that is a show rabbit formula and I have to special order it. It goes directly from the mill to the feed store and there is always a date stamped on the bags letting me know exactly when the food was milled and I never use a bag 6 months past that date. I had a female nursing FOUR kits on her own with no assistance from me and she didn't lose weight like your female is doing. I also regularly have litters of triplets from my females and they never lose weight like that...so NO it is NOT understandable that your female is losing weight like that with three kits. It means she has nutritional deficiency that is not allowing her to nurse her kits and maintain her own weight at the same time.

Unless your dollar store is a mom and pop shop where they go out and cut their own wood to boil and bake and twist into the baskets and whatever else...you can't say that the wood is unprocessed or pesticide free. Pesticides can cause fur chewing in chinchillas and also sterility...since you are breeding, that sterility part should grab your attention and concern for your animals.
 
I do not mean to hurt your feelings but you came here looking for advise but do not seem to really want it. I really do not have time to do all the research for you but will do so in another thread to benefit the forum as a whole. A female should not lose condition and a bunch of weight do to nursing even a large litter of kits if given proper nutrition. If you really want to learn more see my feed thread here:

http://www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37739
 
I hope the young lady experiments with different feeds and makes notes.

I know that my Mazuri is milled in the same location. I have used it for years and no problems with all ages and no breeding problems.

However I have a senior chin who cannot digest it well. Her poo was so small I was worried she may become impacted. So I switched her to Oxbow and within a weeks time she improved greatly. No change on part with hay or water. Why the difference? I have no clue.

Randy thanks for posting the feed information. Found it helpful.
 
EricaWieser said:
Everybody, I really do not see the difference between the Mazuri chin food ingredients and the Small World pellets. One is 20% protein and one is 16% protein; that's so negligible. Three of the first four ingredients are the same for both products.
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The feed with 20% protein represents a 25% increase in protein over the 16% feed, that is very significant... Your animals are showing a need for higher nutrition, it will be in the protein and possibly crude fat parts of the feed. You should read Jags link to a preexisting post on feed, not all alfalfa grass is created equal, so even two products with the same ingredient list can vary greatly. Not to mention... you realise it just lists the ingredients in order of % used but doesn't say what that % is... So one could have 80% of the first ingredient while another had 70% ect. Thats why Jags said those labels are basically useless.

Also, if you were a biologist you would have a deeper understanding of the biological functions of mammals and plants. I wouldn't have to point out that there are many types of protein (amino acids) and that the food label does not break that down and tell you what's what in your feed.

The reason people don't view Walmart highly is they sell cheap products cheaply (vs high quality products for cheap). I pick up sawdust from walmart, but thats because its for peeing on... They aren't going to worry about getting the freshest, hay, but the cheapest, that means it will be the crop that grew poorly and the farmer has to sell for a lower price. There is also shelf time, the longer the food is on the shelf the more vitamins are destroyed.

If you were a scientist, you would have already tried experimenting with new feeds to find improvement in your herd. Use your scientific method!! >.<
 
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