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  #61  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:12 PM United States
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It's sad because the animal is only considered for its pelt. It's also sad to think about chins getting hurt.
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  #62  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:40 PM United States
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Originally Posted by SamiJami View Post
It's sad because the animal is only considered for its pelt. It's also sad to think about chins getting hurt.

The shows were originally for pelter/ranchers and breed standards needed to be developed. What it comes down to is the need to have some guidlines as to what makes a quality animal, I don't see how this is sad, Rabbits/chickens/Cows/pigs are all judged based on production standards. When dealing with animals you need to have "farming" standards to judge on. If there were no judging based on pelt do you know how many more really crappy chinchillas there would be out there? there really needs to be a way to judge animals, standardizing based on pelt quality makes sense.
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  #63  
Old 12-26-2010, 09:48 PM United States
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It's not sad. If it weren't for these shows and the standards to which responsible breeders are held and follow, all of our animals would be tiny, sickly animals. I'd prefer my chins from a quality breeder who breeds to standards than to buy from somebody who doesn't care what the standards say.

And rabbit shows judging is based on the same thing. It's either judged originally for meat or pelt product, not for personality and cuteness. At least, the rabbit shows I've been to and seen have been.
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  #64  
Old 02-11-2011, 08:11 PM United Kingdom
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Thank you for posting the pictures, menagerie, I was wanting to see more pics. of the Locken chins. I personally like them (curly whiskers! ), I like rex fur on critters, my only concern would be if it was linked to any health issues. I probably have a slightly different perspective since I'm in the UK, as there's no fur industry here I can easily see standards being formed for judging them and them finding a place in shows. If the requirements of the fur industry are no longer a consideration, then what makes a chin 'quality', assuming the animal is healthy, becomes (more obviously) a purely subjective judgement. This does not however mean they won't be judged to a rigorous standard - I've been to lots of shows for other small animals as well as for chins, and believe me, even hamsters are judged very seriously!
Maybe I'm a little biased because, while I like chins with brevi-type traits, I actually prefer the daintier, more elegant lanigera-types... As long as they're healthy, and you're not trying to breed for fur, there's no actual reason they're worse or better than each other, it's just about subjective judgements.

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I never go to .com but did to see the goldbar auction thing mentioned in a different thread.
Oh, I don't know if it's Ok to ask, please forgive me if not, but would that be this girl: http://www.chinchillas.com/listings/...mnum=977170527
and did someone from here buy her? I wondered where she'd end up (I wasn't sure if she'd go to a breeder or not as she's pretty small, but then she is a Gold Baar so maybe), as I was absolutely smitten by her, not just because of the colour I think (though it is very pretty), I've seen pics. of Gold Baars before yet wasn't as taken with them as that female, I just thought there was something about her. Thought about buying her but wasn't sure I could justify the shipping costs to the UK. So, if she went to a breeder I guess I'd like to tell them that if, five years down the line or whenever, they want to retire her and decide to place her in a pet home, there's someone here who really wants her!
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  #65  
Old 02-12-2011, 04:01 AM United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphy64 View Post
I probably have a slightly different perspective since I'm in the UK, as there's no fur industry here I can easily see standards being formed for judging them and them finding a place in shows. If the requirements of the fur industry are no longer a consideration, then what makes a chin 'quality', assuming the animal is healthy, becomes (more obviously) a purely subjective judgement. This does not however mean they won't be judged to a rigorous standard
Whilst it is true that we have no fur farming in the UK you will find that shows are still judged along the same criteria as chinchilla shows anywhere else in the world. It would take considerable discussion to change the criteria to allow for curlies (or angoras for that matter) to be judged plus you'd need enough breeders taking on the mutations to make it viable & I can't see that happening anytime soon.
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  #66  
Old 02-13-2011, 12:34 PM United Kingdom
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Yup, I know we still use the same criteria, I just feel it might possibly be a bit easier for them to gain acceptance at shows here, since chins are bred just for show/pets and so don't necessarily need to have a specific type of coat. I expect that since we do use the same criteria, the Locken chins (and the Angora) would still be judged similarly in regards to confirmation, they'll be bred to be big and blocky, and colour will also be the same. It doesn't quite need the entire standard to be changed - normal furred chins would be judged exactly the same way they've been judged before, it'd just need an addition to explain what qualities are looked for in the coat of Locken/Angora chins (which would probably just be placed in their own class).

With other types of small animal, like mice, rats and hamsters, different fur varieties are shown and judged, so I think it could work out the same for chins. Here's the standard from the North of England Rat Society for Rex rats:

'The coat to be evenly dense and not excessively harsh, with as few
guard hairs as possible. Coat to be evenly curled and also to a lesser
extent on the belly. Curly vibrissae (whiskers) are normal for Rex.
Colour to conform to a recognised colour or pattern variety.'

I can see something like that working, the conformation and colour is judged as usual, there's just some specific explanation for the coat. I had a Rex rat myself, I loved the way his coat (and whiskers!) curled, so would be very interested in a chin with a similar coat. I wonder what they feel like to the touch?

I think you're right, it probably won't happen that soon, but I do think it will, breeders in Europe are importing Angoras it seems, so they're going to want to be able to show them. Don't know if anyone in the UK has them yet, I haven't heard of any. Sounds like Jim Ritterspach is working pretty seriously with the Locken chins, too, and he's on the ECBC board of directors, right? So is in a position to help work out a standard for them to be judged by? It will be interesting to see, anyway.
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  #67  
Old 02-16-2011, 05:31 PM United States
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What are mutation pelts used for? I was under the impression that grey pelts are bleached and dyed if a color fur coat is desired. What would be the purpose of a large ranch breeding a beige violet chin for example?
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  #68  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:56 PM United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ticklechin View Post
What are mutation pelts used for? I was under the impression that grey pelts are bleached and dyed if a color fur coat is desired. What would be the purpose of a large ranch breeding a beige violet chin for example?
I would imagine that since bleaching can be very harsh and damaging on human hair, that it would also reduce the feel of chinchilla fur too. So I see the mutations as a way of still having the very pleasant texture without losing any quality but getting varied colors. Whites would also help with that since no bleaching could be required, but white isn't as strongly developed as say black velvets. This of course is all my own opinion and I could be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me.

And Amphy, not everyone who shows in the US is showing to pelt. Most are actually just hobby breeders breeding for good quality pet chins and just overall improving chinchillas.
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  #69  
Old 02-17-2011, 07:49 AM United States
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I thought white was the hardest color to match?
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  #70  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:20 AM United States
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Dawn white is hard to match... Which is why you normally see the standards. Much easier to match. I think blacks are commonly used now, too.

I'm thinking if you can get enough similar whites/beiges they'd be used for smaller pieces? Perhaps ear muffs, scarf, roses, bears etc.

I would think the only reason for a large rancher to breed the questioned mutation is to market off the "pet" people and "small hobby breeder" that wants a funky color not everyone has. Especially overseas where this ranch tends to market to.. They are willing to shell out a large amount of money on something most of us wouldn't want to use.
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